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Discussion Starter #1
And at Wimbledon this year, Federer played the best he's played in years, so there is no excuse for Federer not winning Wimbledon in the near future.
Age isn't an excuse, because he's entering the easiest grasscourt era of all-time, and he's supposed to be the best grasscourter ever (or top 3 with Sampras and Laver).
 

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Why doesn't this sick premise apply to Big Novak as well?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Why doesn't this sick premise apply to Big Novak as well?
Yes on grass its easier for Djokovic now too, but I don't find him interesting enough to post about....
Federer is on 20 slams, so the implications of him winning another slam is bigger, because of tight race with Rafa.
 

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Nadal vultured dozen slams in the weakest clay era 2005-present so its only fair the grass field becomes a bit easier
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Nadal vultured dozen slams in the weakest clay era 2005-present so its only fair the grass field becomes a bit easier
Federer and Djokovic are as good as Borg, or better, but I'll give Borg the benefit of the doubt because of the 1980s technologies.
Federer and Djokovic would have both dominated 90s clay, so Rafa was unlucky to be in the 2000s, because Rafa would have beaten the 90s clay champs even easier.

The combination of Federer/Djokovic's skills and stamina are unmatched, outside of Rafa.
Muster had some great stamina, but didn't last long, and didn't win much at Roland Garros.
And skill-wise, Guga was great for his time, but none of the 90s clay champs were as skillful as Federer/Djokovic.
 

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Federer and Djokovic are as good as Borg, or better, but I'll give Borg the benefit of the doubt because of the 1980s technologies.
Federer and Djokovic would have both dominated 90s clay, so Rafa was unlucky to be this era, because Rafa would have beaten the 90s clay champs even easier.

The combination of Federer/Djokovic's skills and stamina are unmatched, outside of Rafa.
Muster had some great stamina, but didn't last long, and didn't win much at Roland Garros.
And skill-wise, Guga was great for his time, but none of the 90s clay champs were as skillful as Federer/Djokovic.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
^ So which of the 90s clay champs were better than Federer/Djokovic?
Remember Djokovic (and Rafa) took physicality to a new level, everyone agrees.
And Federer matched that physicality most of the time.

And if you watch 90s clay, it was more defensive than anything we saw in the 2000s.
The Big3 have played the most aggressive tennis on clay.
So on clay, champs in the 90s had less stamina, and were less aggressive.
 

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That's absolutely true: young players are allergic to grass and also to net play.

I don't think there has ever been a period in tennis history with so few serve and volley specialists.

Fed is enjoying a competition-free reign for net position: he won't have to worry to play passing shots anytime soon, while himself able to shorten points to his advantage.
 

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What are you talking about?

Berrettini, Auger Aliassime, Khachanov, Rublev, Pouille, Hurkacz and Tiafoe all have better records on grass than the other two surfaces.

I would argue Kyrgios is most dangerous against the top players on grass, too.

Also, Stefanos Tsitsipas literally just said at the ATP Finals a couple of days ago that he feels grass is his best surface even if he has had some early losses there so far. The ATP Finals actually plays more similar to grasscourts than most other hardcourts because it is low bouncing and fast - and he won the tournament. I think, in the medium term, it could easily become his best surface because he is good at the net, has a big first serve, and uses more variety than most.

It's totally natural that in their first couple of seasons on the tour most young players are less good on grass purely because there are so few training courts on that surface as they're growing up. The vast majority of juniors train on hardcourts or claycourts, and many of them don't step on a grasscourt for a competitive match until Wimbledon Juniors. However, that does not mean that the grass era will be weak, because these young players slowly gain experience on the surface and learn how to move on it more naturally - look at Rafa's transformation on hardcourts and grass compared to when he first joined the tour, for example.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Tsitsipas "literally" said? Then there must be a quote of that.
Anyway Tsitsipas' interviews when he lost to [email protected] and [email protected] indicate his word is not to be trusted.....

And Tsitsipas beat Rafa on clay (his only win over Rafa ever), and we're supposed to believe he's just as comfortable on grass as he is clay?
Tsitsipas is 8-7 on grass, and 26-13 on clay, so I'll wait for reality instead of trusting his word.....

Rafa was comfortable beating Federer on hardcourt in 2004 (and made the Wimbledon Final in 2006, just a year after his first French Open title), so Rafa was a natural on all surfaces.....just that he was a clay prodigy, so everything else was overshadowed.
 

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... Our good buddy Nadalalot is still on the campaign trail for the ACC title so he's going all stops out creating this nonsense.

Look man I get it.Nadal,once again... flopped at the WTF and still has the gaping hole in his resume.It won't get easier with the Next Gen now starting to step up.Just embrace it and move on.


And then you say 'Age is not an excuse' because nearing 40 is something that should be scoffed at but mentioning injuries ad nauseum in another regard is completely fine.Yeah,whatever.
 

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Not sure if it's the easiest but it did look like a lot of players struggled on grass this year. This is an advantage not just to Federer but also for Djokovic and maybe even Nadal if he brings his grass court game from the last two years.
 

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So dull is not good on grass according to you? At least there’s something we can finally agree on.
 

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Tsitsipas "literally" said? Then there must be a quote of that.
Anyway Tsitsipas' interviews when he lost to [email protected] and [email protected] indicate his word is not to be trusted.....

And Tsitsipas beat Rafa on clay (his only win over Rafa ever), and we're supposed to believe he's just as comfortable on grass as he is clay?
Tsitsipas is 8-7 on grass, and 26-13 on clay, so I'll wait for reality instead of trusting his word.....

Rafa was comfortable beating Federer on hardcourt in 2004 (and made the Wimbledon Final in 2006, just a year after his first French Open title), so Rafa was a natural on all surfaces.....just that he was a clay prodigy, so everything else was overshadowed.
So you've focused on Tsitsipas and ignored the entire list of players I mentioned? Great rebuttal.

Berrettini, Auger Aliassime, Khachanov, Rublev, Pouille, Hurkacz and Tiafoe statistically all have better records on grass than the other two surfaces. Kyrgios has some of his biggest wins there too.

Which of the top (let's be generous and say ranked in the top 50) young players aged 25 or less has a better record on clay than the other two surfaces? Off the top of my head, only Zverev and Garin.
 

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And at Wimbledon this year, Federer played the best he's played in years, so there is no excuse for Federer not winning Wimbledon in the near future.
Age isn't an excuse, because he's entering the easiest grasscourt era of all-time, and he's supposed to be the best grasscourter ever (or top 3 with Sampras and Laver).
This may be the easiest grass court era of all time and Federer has much more experience on this surface than most, still being 38 is a problem. Also, grass court tennis is much different today than it was in Laver or Pete's day.
 

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It's true there is no younger one on grass as Thiem is on clay.
Fed has no serious competition on grass from the younger gen as Rafa does on clay, yet Rafa keeps winning FO--Fed hasn't won Wimb since he had Cilic with blisters a few years ago.
More signs of Rafa's superiority.
 

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It's true there is no younger one on grass as Thiem is on clay.
Fed has no serious competition on grass from the younger gen as Rafa does on clay, yet Rafa keeps winning FO--Fed hasn't won Wimb since he had Cilic with blisters a few years ago.
More signs of Rafa's superiority.
Remember that Novak - the guy who prevented Fed from a few Wimby's - is 5 years younger.
 

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What are you talking about?

Berrettini, Auger Aliassime, Khachanov, Rublev, Pouille, Hurkacz and Tiafoe all have better records on grass than the other two surfaces.

I would argue Kyrgios is most dangerous against the top players on grass, too.

Also, Stefanos Tsitsipas literally just said at the ATP Finals a couple of days ago that he feels grass is his best surface even if he has had some early losses there so far. The ATP Finals actually plays more similar to grasscourts than most other hardcourts because it is low bouncing and fast - and he won the tournament. I think, in the medium term, it could easily become his best surface because he is good at the net, has a big first serve, and uses more variety than most.

It's totally natural that in their first couple of seasons on the tour most young players are less good on grass purely because there are so few training courts on that surface as they're growing up. The vast majority of juniors train on hardcourts or claycourts, and many of them don't step on a grasscourt for a competitive match until Wimbledon Juniors. However, that does not mean that the grass era will be weak, because these young players slowly gain experience on the surface and learn how to move on it more naturally - look at Rafa's transformation on hardcourts and grass compared to when he first joined the tour, for example.
Excellent examples & appreciate u setting the record straight. These players listed also benefit from the fact that WB doesn't even play like it has in the past (whether deliberate homogenization or type of grass) so not as much S&V necessary.
 
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