[Непознати]

Some will say Tennis is an individual sport and needn't a Nation Ranking.

Others will say this ranking is not worthy because adding a Future with the same value as a GS.

But my idea is not to rank nations by their best player, what would have occured if prioritising GS and MS.

Futures winners of today are to be Main Circuit winners of tomorrow (even if I know some older players are vulturing Futures) and IMO this way of ranking is reflecting Today and Tomorrow level of a Nation.

2013 RANKING :

1 SPAIN 71 titles (17 on main circuit)
2 FRANCE 60 (7)
3 USA 49 (2)
4 ARGENTINA 45 (7)
5 ITALIA 44 (2)
6 GERMANY 36 (2)
7 UNITED KINGDOM 31 (4)
8 CROATIA 28 (2)
9 AUSTRALIA 28 (1)
10 RUSSIA 27 (2)
11 BELGIUM 27 (0)
12 CZECH REP 26 (2)
13 AUSTRIA 26 (1)
14 BRAZIL 23 (0)
15 SERBIA 20 (8)

2014 RANKING

1(2) FRANCE 72 (2)
2(1) SPAIN 60 (11)
3(3) USA 56 (2)
4(5) ITALIA 47(1)
5(4) ARGENTINA 41 (4)
6(7) UNITED KINGDOM 40 (3)
7(15) SERBIA 38 (7)
8(11) BELGIUM 37 (2)
9(9) AUSTRALIA 32 (3)
10(12) CZECH REP 29 (3)
11(6) GERMANY 28 (1)
12(24) CHILE 28 (0)
13(10) RUSSIA 26 (0)
14(16) JAPAN 23 (4)
15(14) BRAZIL 19 (0)

 

[Rekanto]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

A ranking based on nationality could be a bit biased and unfair.

There are alot of tournaments played in the USA. Same for Spain and France. What that tells me is that players from those nations that have alot of tournaments have a much higher chance of winning.

You need a better formula.

 

[Непознати]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

Of course, Switzerland is not high in this ranking, whereas having won DC (I counted it) and counting 2 Divas of the game.

But they lack of other players, what doesn't prevent them from winning DC with only 2 active players in the whole campaign, but what is not enough to reach 20 won titles.

 

[Непознати]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

A ranking based on nationality could be a bit biased and unfair.

There are alot of tournaments played in the USA. Same for Spain and France. What that tells me is that players from those nations that have alot of tournaments have a much higher chance of winning.

You need a better formula.

Agree with you, a lot of future in a nation is a good thing for local players to get a ranking with a couple of matches won but winning a title is at least 5 wins and all local tournaments are far but won by local players.

In fact this system is not made to be fair as there are some nations with money and 200 million inhabitants and others poor with 3 millions.
Some are traditionnal tennis nations, others are brand new.

This is my view of the system, integrating the bias I evaluate.

More than ranking itself, evolution will be interesting to follow.

 

[oranges]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

A ranking based on nationality could be a bit biased and unfair.

There are a lot of tournaments played in the USA. Same for Spain and France. What that tells me is that players from those nations that have alot of tournaments have a much higher chance of winning.

You need a better formula.

I'm not sure that's particularly relevant (and to the extent that it is it also tends to reflect on results later on in careers). Namely, players from smaller countries will player futures in neighboring countries too, so Slovenian players will go to Croatia and vice versa. Basically, you'll find futures near enough anyway. What matters is that futures (and challengers) are not of the same quality and winning some is not nearly an acomplishment as winning some others.

 

[Непознати]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

What matters is that futures (and challengers) are not of the same quality and winning some is not nearly an acomplishment as winning some others.

Right, but with caricaturing the idea, there is no special nation vulturing African Futures or Viet Nam ones so the Nation Ranking is not that affected by the bias.

 

[oranges]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

Well, I'm not that much in the know about the quality of futures around the world, but there are areas other than Africa with low quality futures, meaning competition is much weaker than say in Europe. Overall, though, I don't think it's important for what you're trying to show, I agree.

 

[Непознати]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

A early look at the 2015 nation ranking :

Spain is ruling with 5 titles.

Serbia next with 4 titles (1 GS (Nole) 1 "250" (Viktor) and 2 futures (Djere 20g and Petrovic 22g)

USA, France and United Kingdom are following with 3 but only challengers or futures.

Switzerland has 2 "250" and is 6th

 

[Непознати]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

USA in fact with 4 titles as Maui is an All American final.

 

[Непознати]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

UPDATE AND CHANGE OF LEADER :

TOP 5 is :

France with 8
Spain with 6 (and 2 at ATP level)
US of A with 6
Serbia with 4
Switzerland with 3 (all at ATP level)

 

[Непознати]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

2015 Ranking so far (it is closer than former and Italy very close to):

France 72 (6 on main circuit)
Spain 71 (10)
Italia 65 (0)
USA 47 (3)
United Kingdom 35 (4)
Serbia 34 (12)
Argentina 31 (0)
Germany 30 (1)
Russia 30 (0)
Czech Rep. 29 (3)
Japon 25 (3)
Australia 25 (1)
Belgium 24 (0)
Austria 22 (3)
Brazil 21 (1)
India 21 (0)
Netherlands 17 (0)
Croatia 15 (2)
Portugal 14 (1)
Switzerland 12 (10)
Canada 11 (1)
South Africa 11 (1)
Ukraine 11 (0)
Chile 11 (0)

 

[Непознати]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

Spain just took the lead when there are just four weeks and 32 futures left !

Spain 73 titles (10 on main circuit)
France 72 (6)
Italia 65 (0)
USA 47 (3)
United Kingdom 37 (5)
Serbia 35 (12)
Argentina 31 (0)
Germany 31 (1)
Russia 31 (0)
Czech Rep. 30 (3)
Japon 26 (3)
Australia 25 (1)
Belgium 24 (0)
Austria 22 (3)
Brazil 21 (1)
India 21 (0)
Netherlands 17 (0)
Croatia 16 (2)
Portugal 14 (1)
Switzerland 13 (10)
Chile 12 (0)
Canada 11 (1)
South Africa 11 (1)
Ukraine 11 (0)

 

[HoorayBeer]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

Interesting fact

If Dunblane a town of 3,000 left the United Kingdom then Dunblane with its miniscule population would have tons more points then the 60 million of UK.

 

[Непознати]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

Interesting fact

If Dunblane a town of 3,000 left the United Kingdom then Dunblane with its miniscule population would have tons more points then the 60 million of UK.

Sorry did not understand what you mean and why it is related to this ranking were numbers are just titles won this year.

 

[Loosie]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

I don't think you can really rank it by number of titles.

I'm not sure you can really call Italy the 3rd 'best nation' simply because their players won 65 different Challengers/Futures.

 

[LoverInRuins]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

What about using number of players in the top 100?

 

[Непознати]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

I don't think you can really rank it by number of titles.

I'm not sure you can really call Italy the 3rd 'best nation' simply because their players won 65 different Challengers/Futures.

Basically I have nothing pro or against Italy but if it gets the third place, it probably deserves.

Anyhow piling titles is more or less what they did when piling medals at Olympics.

And if a future does not worth a Slam, a gold medal in trampoline does not worth a 100 m one.

What about using number of players in the top 100?

You can, but this ranking is far more global because including the young guns that are winning futures and most will be the top 100 players in 5 years.

 

[AdamT]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

Of course, Switzerland is not high in this ranking, whereas having won DC (I counted it) and counting 2 Divas of the game.

But they lack of other players, what doesn't prevent them from winning DC with only 2 active players in the whole campaign, but what is not enough to reach 20 won titles.

Yeah, Switzerland lacks depth, they have two top 4 players, yet their 3rd player is ranked 199th. That means their top 2 is actually an outlier as you can see here:

Tennis Abstract: ATP Rankings by Country

Britain even won DC with only one player. If you exclude Bedene, both Edmund and Ward are outside top 100.

On the other hand, USA is not considered strong recently, but their 3rd player is 32nd.

French 3rd player is 15th.

 

[Непознати]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

Yeah, Switzerland lacks depth, they have two top 4 players, yet their 3rd player is ranked 199th. That means their top 2 is actually an outlier as you can see here:

Tennis Abstract: ATP Rankings by Country

Britain even won DC with only one player. If you exclude Bedene, both Edmund and Ward are outside top 100.

On the other hand, USA is not considered strong recently, but their 3rd player is 32nd.

French 3rd player is 15th.

Agree with you basically but things can change fast...

US young guns from 98 and after (native or migrants) are very solid and Ivan Lendl was hired to deal with the youngest.

France has tons of 200-500 players and of course that wonderfull Tsonga Gasquet Monfils Simon quartet but even if they try hard with the youngers by sending them playing futures and challengers in the poorest areas, they didn't manage so far to have those with enough killer instinct to win a slam....

A lot of hopes in Corentin Moutet there...

 

[Непознати]

Re: Nations Ranking Thread

17 futures left

Spain 74 titles (10 on main circuit)
France 72 (6)
Italia 65 (0)
USA 50 (3)
United Kingdom 39 (5)
Serbia 35 (12)
Argentina 32 (0)
Russia 32 (0)
Germany 31 (1)
Czech Rep. 30 (3)
Japon 26 (3)
Australia 25 (1)
Austria 24 (3)
Belgium 24 (0)
Brazil 21 (1)
India 21 (0)
Netherlands 17 (0)
Croatia 16 (2)
Portugal 14 (1)
Switzerland 13 (10)
Ukraine 13 (0)
Chile 12 (0)
Canada 11 (1)
South Africa 11 (1)