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Will Nadal make deep runs in wimbledon again(SF/F/W)

  • Yes he will adapt his game

    Votes: 21 46.7%
  • No

    Votes: 24 53.3%

  • Total voters
    45
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This thread is a little bit hypotethical, because it's mostly based on Nadal's 2012 and 2013 wimbledon matches (there weren't much).

Because of Nadal lost in the second round of the 2012 Wimbledon, and in the first round of the 2013 Wimbledon, it raises the questions. Why? Can he win again? Will he win again?

Personally I think no. His days in wimbledon is behind him. He was a good grass courter, 3 times runner up 2 times champion, but it is the past. His style of playing made him vulnerable too injuries, and his knee suffered a lot. This is one of the main problem of his lack of success, in grass the past years.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/26/sports/tennis/nadals-knee.html?_r=0
This video shows that his 2HBH makes a lot of pressure on his injured left knee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inQvbT8uEGk
If you watch this video (i didn't find any on grass) you can see that his forehand doesnt put too much pressure on his knee on hardcourts. But in grass courts he needs to bend his knee lower because of the low bouncing (especially on first week)balls. If you imagine his movement on grass with a low bouncing balls you can see that he puts too much pressure on his left knee. He do this with his forehands because with this movement he is able to make crazy topspin balls. That is because of his grip too. He could change his game to help his footwork and get pressure off his left knee, but because the topspin forehand is his main weapon, and because he should only change it for wimbledon, it is not worth it.
NADAL VS DARCIS WIMBLEDON

Nadal's returns

You can see that his forehand return is worse than his backhand return, so playing your serves for Nadal's forehand is paying off now.

Darcis's shot placement

Here you can see that his forehand is just not holding up against Darcis.

Tim Henman:
"To see him struggle makes me wonder whether grass actually puts a bit more stress on his patella tendon, with maybe a bit more bending. Only Rafa knows if grass is a problem, but most of us would have thought that grass, being softer, was perhaps a little bit more helpful. Maybe that isn't the case."
Henman was talking about the knee problem explained before.

Boris Becker:
"If you have a knee problem, grass is the worst surface. Hard courts are not as bad because you have a firm position, you can put your foot down and stand up to hit the ball - the bounce is higher so you don't have to bend as low. I wouldn't worry about Nadal playing on hard courts or indoors, but I always thought grass was an issue."
He said that too, low bounding is worse of you have knee problems.

Some articles I used (the pictures the interviews)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1682953-breaking-down-rafael-nadals-grass-court-struggles-in-wake-of-wimbledon-upset
http://www.tennisgrandstand.com/2013/06/21/how-to-attack-rafael-nadal-on-the-wimbledon-grass/
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/tennis/23040937

PLEASE share your thoughts

UPDATED Rafael Nadal vs Dustin Brown Gerry Weber Open 2014

Rafael Nadal vs Dustin Brown

Nadal might not transferred his game to grass already, but I think that is not the case. I just watched the match this morning, so I am going to analyze some of the points from the game.

First Brown’s service games are easy to analyze. He used flat hard fast serves both in his first serve and second serve. These kind of serves is hard to return I dont think Nadal should make this bad. Int he entire match Nadal won 13/51 (25%) points on return, 5/31 (16%) after Brown’s first serve, 8/20 (40%) on second serves. In the first set he won 11/33 (33%) return points, but only 2/18 (11%) on the second set. I think these are terrible stats even though he played RG final and it is hard to change for clay. Brown played only one match more on grass! In my analyses I pointed out that Nadal has difficulties on low bouncing balls because of his grip. Brown serves was low bouncing balls and he barely returned them well.

Nadal’s service games are more complex, I would like to highlight some points which were the clear examples of my theory and analysis.

In the 1st set set point Nadal was serving. Brown made a slice return to Nadal’s forehand, good slice there low bouncing, Nadal made a forehand error and even though the return was great, it should have been at least returned.

Another thing I noticed that he hit sometimes backhand slices (made some errors with that) but he could hit a BH topspin too. Maybe the balls were low-bouncing and he felt he can only hit slices, but for me it looked like most of the players could hit a topspin from there. I am not so sure about this so dont take that seriously.

In the second set.
2. game 30-30
Brown hit a good slice for Nadal’s forehand. He hit a forehand but Brown had enough time to hit a perfect lob. He didn’t even had to sweat, because Nadal couldn’t get in control after his best shot the forehand topspin. Okay the lob is a defensive shot I agree, but it was a terrible forehand.
2. game 30-40 BP
The same exact thing happened here they almost replayed tge point before.
4. game 0-0
Brown hit a flat ball to Nadal’s forehand but wasnt as close to the line. Nadal hit a forehand error.
4. game 0-15
Brown sliced a ball to Nadal’s backhand, bounced at the T-line. Nadal hit a backhand error.
4. game 0-30
Brown hit a flat a ball to Nadal’s backhand. He tried to slice and made an error.
4. game 30-40 BP
Looks like Nadal can get the control with his forehand, but Brown hit a lob again. Even though it is a defensive shot Nadal wasnt in control after his forehand.

Nadal's forehand error on first set set point
http://i.imgur.com/WEdYdeD.jpg?1?4907

Look at his knees, he is not bending them enough. Maybe he cant? And look at how his racket heading. If he want to hit like this he should bend his knees more or hope for higher bouncing balls.

Here is a youtube link to the match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDeZJGGTUXc
Please share your thoughts again.
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

Nothing much has changed and nothing will likely ever change when it comes to Nadal's performance on grass. He is just bad on grass, and decent/good on the dead roughed up "grass" at the end of the tournament. So, expect him to struggle in the first rounds as always, at least till the grass gets fucked up...
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

Nadals grass game is non-existent last couple of years
simple reason is that moonball doesn't work on grass as well as on other surfaces
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

He'll be blown off the court on grass by any decent player. Even Groove could do that but he's too much of a fanboy to do that. But Uncle Latso would triple-bagel Rafa at Wimby.
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

Nadal was a good grass courter that benefited from the lack of great grass court players in 2006/2010 and there still lack of great grass court players

I blame the atp. zero masters on grass an 2 weeks grass season is pathetic.
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

cheers for the badreps guys:hatoff:

Seriously, how statement that grass doesn't suit high spinny balls, bread and butter of Rafas game, is retarded :confused:
you may call it topspin forehands, moonballs, whatever you like:shrug:

Leaving all game-style adjustments aside, Rafas confidence at Wimbledon might be at an all time low this year
as it'll depend on the outcome of his RG campaign
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

He just can't bend his knees anymore like he used to. The courts are about the same, and the opponents level too. No chance he passes 1st week anymore and very hard to win even one match unless he draws Berlocq or Sousa.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

To the ones who say moonballing doesnt work, could you specific the difference between rafa's game today, and his old not moonballing game from 2006-2011? I mean the hard topspin was part of his game when he won 2008, and in 12 and 13 he lost in the first and second round.

Nolethebest, then why cant he made to the third round for the last two years?

The fearhand, thanks :D

EDIT: Putti see my first question above, what did he play from 06-11, reaching five finals and winning 2. I agree that in 11 he has one of the easiest GS, but in 08 he won against Fed.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

He just can't bend his knees anymore like he used to. The courts are about the same, and the opponents level too. No chance he passes 1st week anymore and very hard to win even one match unless he draws Berlocq or Sousa.
Do you agree with me that the problem with his forehand is the same?( With low bouncing balls he use his left knee more BH/FH)

EDIT: I ask because i didn't see any analysis just about his backhand.
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

Do you agree with me that the problem with his forehand is the same?( With low bouncing balls he use his left knee more BH/FH)
Of course I do. That is a more technical way (so better way)to say what I did ;)
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

He should try to ballbash and to come more to the net
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

Great thread, I'm even giving you a greenrep for this! :yeah:

When I saw the topic, my first thought was: "Jeez, another one of those trolls treads saying Nadal can win Wimbledon because he reached 5 finals in the past or something like it"...But this is nothing like that. Very good analysis!

It may be tough for fanboys to understand this, but Nadal was never a good grass courter. He always played Wimbledon like his usual clay-hard style, just flatening his ball a bit and taking advantage of being a lefty who could use and abuse of his slice serve into the backhand of the right-handed players. Add to that he was a superior athlete than everybody in the tour between 2006-2010.

But right now, with knee problems, he can't play like this anymore. He can't sustain rallies like the old days, he is almost never in a good position to made a good counter-attack, also his serve regressed and becames vulnerable, even OHBH guys like Darcis can return deep with the backhand.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

Great thread, I'm even giving you a greenrep for this! :yeah:

When I saw the topic, my first thought was: "Jeez, another one of those trolls treads saying Nadal can win Wimbledon because he reached 5 finals in the past or something like it"...But this is nothing like that. Very good analysis!

It may be tough for fanboys to understand this, but Nadal was never a good grass courter. He always played Wimbledon like his usual clay-hard style, just flatening his ball a bit and taking advantage of being a lefty who could use and abuse of his slice serve into the backhand of the right-handed players. Add to that he was a superior athlete than everybody in the tour between 2006-2010.

But right now, with knee problems, he can't play like this anymore. He can't sustain rallies like the old days, he is almost never in a good position to made a good counter-attack, also his serve regressed and becames vulnerable, even OHBH guys like Darcis can return deep with the backhand.
Thank you.

My other theory is that he couldn't play better in the second week now. I was watching his old rallies with Fed on grass, and he needed to use his knees really much, making pressure on his left explained in the first post. It's totally theoreticalto say but I don't think his game would get much better in the second week now.

Time will decide we will see in wimbledon this year.
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

If he can survive from the servebots and volleyers the first week of the comeptition, he can win Wimbledon again.
5-setter come-from-behind with R Haase(R2) and P Petzschner(R3) in 2010. The latter victory is helped by a mysterious medical time-out when he was down by 1 set to 2.(Haase, Petzschener, Rosol, Darcius are all servebots and volleyers)
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

Thank you.

My other theory is that he couldn't play better in the second week now. I was watching his old rallies with Fed on grass, and he needed to use his knees really much, making pressure on his left explained in the first post. It's totally theoreticalto say but I don't think his game would get much better in the second week now.

Time will decide we will see in wimbledon this year.
Also agree 100%. :worship:
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

News flash!!!!!

Rafas knees are fine. When was the last time we saw them taped? Just after Canada open. And they were never seen again.

I dont have a problem admiting Rafa got all those finals because lack of talent. Same aplies to Federer reaching RG finals. It goes both ways.

Rafa problem with grass is rather simple. Haters are going to go crazy on what im about to say. But i really believe.

Rafa lost to Rosol because of 2 reasons. Rosol played great and better then Rafa and Rafa i believe got hurt either before the game with Rosol ou during. Im not taking merit away from Rosol my reasening is he never played again for 7 months because of injury.

So Rafa comes back 2013 we all know what happen then comes Wimby. No im not going to use the injury card with Darcis. Because hes wasnt, but Rafa was playing safe, conservative and afraid. Afraid of what? Getting hurt like 2012.

So this year Rafas knees are much better, so it seems but mentaly i hope hes not afraid of getting hurt.
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

I think the problem is that on grass he cannot return serve by staying far back like what he did on clay. His over-exaggerated knee problem won't affect him much since he had to deal with this long before.
 

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Re: Nadal's game on grass today.

To the ones who say moonballing doesnt work, could you specific the difference between rafa's game today, and his old not moonballing game from 2006-2011? I mean the hard topspin was part of his game when he won 2008, and in 12 and 13 he lost in the first and second round.

EDIT: Putti see my first question above, what did he play from 06-11, reaching five finals and winning 2. I agree that in 11 he has one of the easiest GS, but in 08 he won against Fed.
I don't think that there's a big difference in the way he was playing on different surfaces over the years, not to me anyway

He was a better player few years back, in 2008 particularly, he was younger, playing with higher intensity etc. That was allowing him to get through the first week untroubled. Was he injury free then as opposed to present? Not sure
 
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