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I never seen a player like Nadal own players with great backhands before Nadal has a winning h2h again the greatest backhands in history Federer 24-16 Wawrinka 19-3 Gasquet 16-0, D.Thiem 9-6 Murray 17-7 Goffin 4-2. even Djokovic lost 27 times to Nadal tails h2h in majors 6-10, that makes Nadal so good against players with great backhands his master baseline game, or the big top spin he gets the ball maybe Nadal just matches up well against these type players. that do you guys think?
 

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Federer and Djokovic have the same W/L records against those players though

Has nothing to do with Rafa being the "ultimate BH killer".

If anything, that heavy BH into his FH is a recipe for success against him (extremely hard to execute).
 

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Federer and Djokovic have the same W/L records against those players though

Has nothing to do with Rafa being the "ultimate BH killer".

If anything, that heavy BH into his FH is a recipe for success against him (extremely hard to execute).
Not really Gasquet beaten both Djokovic Federer but ever Nadal Also Wawrinka done better against Djokovic than Nadal, Murray also close h2h with Federer but not Nadal and Djokovic.
 

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Not really Gasquet beaten both Djokovic Federer but ever Nadal Also Wawrinka done better against Djokovic than Nadal, Murray also close h2h with Federer but not Nadal and Djokovic.
So Gasquet has 1 win against Djok and Fed, who cares? Doesnt change anything about the big picture.

The only differences here are Murray's H2H with Fed, and Stan's with Djoker at slams..I'm not reading Rafa being an ultimate BH killer here. He's just, that good. Djokovic leads him H2H because of the BH.
 
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So Gasquet has 1 win against Djok and Fed, who cares? Doesnt change anything about the big picture.

The only differences here are Murray's H2H with Fed, and Stan's with Djoker at slams..I'm not reading Rafa being an ultimate BH killer here. He's just, that good. Djokovic leads him H2H because of the BH.
Of course right Nadal most likely is good for these players anyway, however it's not just that Nadal game Style is very rare hard to deal with top spin high bounce ECT for one handed backhands. and even both Djokovic Federer lost their first matches against Nadal,
Djokovic having a two handed backhand helps him against Nadal. Regardless of too good or game Style, Nadal stat wise is the ultimate backhand killer as I showed with him having winning records against all the great Backhand players even Djokovic in majors.
 

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Of course right Nadal most likely is good for these players anyway, however it's not just that Nadal game Style is very rare hard to deal with top spin high bounce ECT for one handed backhands. and even both Djokovic Federer lost their first matches against Nadal,
Djokovic having a two handed backhand helps him against Nadal. Regardless of too good or game Style, Nadal stat wise is the ultimate backhand killer as I showed with him having winning records against all the great Backhand players even Djokovic in majors.
Is he also the ultimate forehand killer then? Seems to be
 

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Is he also the ultimate forehand killer then? Seems to be
No Because Gasquet and Wawrinka both did better against Djokovic even if it's just one win or slams, Nadal the ultimate backhand killer he would beat himself if he could straight sets.
 

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He matches up well against one handers. Good two-handers that actually have power (not Goffin) are a bad matchup for Dull. Problem is is that Dull is an ATG so he’s still gonna win most of the time but he clearly struggles more against players with a good two-hander than one-hander and some of those players you mentioned are already bent over with their cheeks spread apart before the match even starts.
 

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I wouldn't say he owns Thiem haha.

Rafa's forehand just causes problems with any backhand. Unless it is Djokovic, Davydenko or an on the baseline Federer 2017 -onward.

This forehand penetrates the court really well and jumps up about 6 ft on most surfaces (bar indoors) so makes sense that he has a good H2H vs. most guys.
 
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I will reframe this to say Nadal's FH is very effective at exposing weak to mediocre backhands. They cannot really deflect the shot and it will keep going being easy pickings for Nadal's FH.

Nadal is also pretty effective all round against decent backhands as well. The short angle high bouncing BH can make it difficult especially for one handers to get good leverage on. Even Wawrinka will struggle because of how much weight the FH shot has driving him further out of court than he would like (and therefore unable to produce as penetrating shots in reply). The issue Federer had with their matchup before 2017 was that his BH wing was not consistently deep or targeted enough to really challenge Nadal. This was especially true at Roland Garros. You can see how Federer literally keeps playing to one side of the court, too comfortable for Nadal. From time to time, he would ramp a harder stroke deep to the corners, but few and far between.


Tsitsipas also struggles in a similar fashion (not always so obvious, but it's part of the reason he loses many tight battles with Nadal), if the BH is not targeted enough, Nadal will wring out the point.

The two hander is more stable and if used well, can give Nadal issue. Doesn't mean Nadal cannot beat them, but he has to work harder and compensate more. The trick is to make "impossible ground coverage". The best type of BH to hurt Nadal must be versatile and tidy, accurate and deceptive in presentation. Nadal may be able to counter some good ones but persistent striking to the corners including the DTL shot will make it hard for Nadal to keep up indefinitely.

I like to use Kei as an example because his 2 hander is known for its persistent accuracy towards the sidelines. Kei lost this match at AO in straight sets but the BH really made Nadal have to work, as so many FHs from Nadal that would create openings did not do the same against Nishikori, who could keep his baseline, and even if he was pushed a bit wide could often compensate with difficult balls. Three good BH points in a row...


If you watch this, you cannot really say Nadal "kills" the Nishikori BH, since that BH hurt Nadal more than the other way round, rather that Nadal won in spite of that shot.
 

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Doesn't Djokovic lead the H2H with Nadal? And hasn't Nadal not beaten Djokovic off of clay since 2013?
 

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Just a lefty advantage w/ freakish topspin that mainly Novak has learned to neutralise consistently off Clay.
 

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Don't mind me, I'm just stopping by to add some actual numbers to this conversation.

Interestingly, Nadal's record against one-handed backhands is actually worse than his record against two-handers - which goes against common thinking. Against one handed backhands he has a winning percentage of 82.3%, but against two-handed backhands his win rate is 83.4%. Even if you exclude his matches against Djokovic and Federer (the two outliers in each backhand category because they are just so much better than most of the tour in the rest of the game), Nadal still wins more matches against two-handers (85.9%) compared to single handed backhand players (85.1%). Broken down by surface, two-handers do better against Rafa on hardcourts whilst one-handers do better against the Spaniard on grass courts (not surprising since they tend to have better slices, volleys and drop shots) and clay courts (this one is surprising IMO, but it's probably due to Thiem/Wawrinka being great claycourters who happen to have one-handed backhands).
 

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Don't mind me, I'm just stopping by to add some actual numbers to this conversation.

Interestingly, Nadal's record against one-handed backhands is actually worse than his record against two-handers - which goes against common thinking. Against one handed backhands he has a winning percentage of 82.3%, but against two-handed backhands his win rate is 83.4%. Even if you exclude his matches against Djokovic and Federer (the two outliers in each backhand category because they are just so much better than most of the tour in the rest of the game), Nadal still wins more matches against two-handers (85.9%) compared to single handed backhand players (85.1%). Broken down by surface, two-handers do better against Rafa on hardcourts whilst one-handers do better against the Spaniard on grass courts (not surprising since they tend to have better slices, volleys and drop shots) and clay courts (this one is surprising IMO, but it's probably due to Thiem/Wawrinka being great claycourters who happen to have one-handed backhands).
The pool of one handers Nadal plays is smaller, so the effect of some of Thiem/Wawrinka wins would be amplified.
 
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