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Being a fan of both players and being used to the typical "Federer owns Nadal on grass" "Nadal owns Federer on clay" "they are even in hardcourt" sayings, one would think nothing has changed in their head to head, Fedfans saying he will eventualy catch up and beat him the way he allways does, Nadal fans saying Fed can't catch up to him and Nadal will eventualy beat him on grass as well.

Federer has already beaten nadal on clay and has had him on match point in another clay match in which he dumped the points, Nadal has never beaten Federer on grass but he has had only 2 chances so in general the situation seems pretty even in a head to head perspective.

However I was thinking, I am sure all of you have talked about this at some point but I felt like making a thread so this came to mind.

unless I am mistaken, wasn't the last time Nadal beat Federer in anything that wasn't clay, the Dubai championships of last year? after that Nadal beat federer at Rome and at the French open but after Dubai, unless my mind is playing tricks on me, they have played 4 times in non clay surfaces and 5 times in clay surfaces I think, in those matches Federer has won all matches that haven't been in clay and one of the matches in clay. Nadal won the other 4 which were obviously in clay.

Saying this after the great wimbledon final is weird since now they seem more even than ever after Nadal gave federer such a tough fight in wimbledon and Federer beat Nadal on hamburg on clay but I still have to think that the last 4 times they have played on other surfaces that weren't clay, Federer has beaten Nadal. This is why I am thinking that their head to head will eventualy change.
 

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Being a fan of both players and being used to the typical "Federer owns Nadal on grass" "Nadal owns Federer on clay" "they are even in hardcourt" sayings, one would think nothing has changed in their head to head, Fedfans saying he will eventualy catch up and beat him the way he allways does, Nadal fans saying Fed can't catch up to him and Nadal will eventualy beat him on grass as well.

Federer has already beaten nadal on clay and has had him on match point in another clay match in which he dumped the points, Nadal has never beaten Federer on grass but he has had only 2 chances so in general the situation seems pretty even in a head to head perspective.

However I was thinking, I am sure all of you have talked about this at some point but I felt like making a thread so this came to mind.

unless I am mistaken, wasn't the last time Nadal beat Federer in anything that wasn't clay, the Dubai championships of last year? after that Nadal beat federer at Rome and at the French open but after Dubai, unless my mind is playing tricks on me, they have played 4 times in non clay surfaces and 5 times in clay surfaces I think, in those matches Federer has won all matches that haven't been in clay and one of the matches in clay. Nadal won the other 4 which were obviously in clay.

Saying this after the great wimbledon final is weird since now they seem more even than ever after Nadal gave federer such a tough fight in wimbledon and Federer beat Nadal on hamburg on clay but I still have to think that the last 4 times they have played on other surfaces that weren't clay, Federer has beaten Nadal. This is why I am thinking that their head to head will eventualy change.
Spot on.
 

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I still think Nadal will lead their head-to-head when it's said and done, though I'm OK with that. Roger's accomplished plenty, and I'm sure their head-to-head will be close enough at the end of his career not to be a black stain.
 

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I still think Nadal will lead their head-to-head when it's said and done, though I'm OK with that. Roger's accomplished plenty, and I'm sure their head-to-head will be close enough at the end of his career not to be a black stain.
when it's said and done maybe...but that will depend on how long Nadal can maintain this go for broke technique of his...

But in the interim i.e. next year or 2 I can see Roger reversing this head to head entirely...though of course, it is made harder for him to do so from the fact that he only meets Rafa in finals, and Rafa reaching finals in any place off clay is not exactly a given. :rolleyes:
 

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unless I am mistaken, wasn't the last time Nadal beat Federer in anything that wasn't clay, the Dubai championships of last year? after that Nadal beat federer at Rome and at the French open but after Dubai, unless my mind is playing tricks on me, they have played 4 times in non clay surfaces and 5 times in clay surfaces I think, in those matches Federer has won all matches that haven't been in clay and one of the matches in clay. Nadal won the other 4 which were obviously in clay.
Your mind is playing tricks on you. Since Dubai last year they've played 3 times on fast courts (2 Wimbledon finals and the Masters Cup SF) and 6 times on clay (MC, Rome, RG finals 06, and MC, Hamburg and RG 07 finals) Fed won the three fast court matches (no suprise as 2 were Wimbledon and one indoor) and Rafa has won 5 of the 6 clay matches. No suprises there either.
 

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If Nadal improves his hardcourt game I think Federer will catch up with him before clay season starts next year.

Lets say they face each ther in Montreal, MAdrid, Master cup, Australian open, Miami

I would have Federer win 4 of these meetings and Nadal win Madrid or Miami (AO with the faster surface will be more difficult for Nadal). They would then be 9-9.

If Nadal gets consistant on hardcourt Federer will have a great chanse to catch up on Nadal.
 

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Nadal is currently enjoying a 8-6 lead over Fed. (Is it 8-5?) It is just a matter of Roger beating Rafa in Canada Masters and US Open (if the two make the Finals) to make it even-steven. From 8-8, the head-to-head score may stay unchanged for a long time, especially if Fed and Rafa never get to meet each other again. In any case, I do not envision the scenario of Rafa making it 9-6 or 10-6 in the coming month or so.
 

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Federer is better at all courts apart from clay, and he's already beaten Nadal in clay, he even bagelled him.
 

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i dont think federer beating nadal in hamburg means a lot after nadal played 20 matches in less than 1 month. but yes the bagel was a bit embarassing, but at least nadal didnt lose in RG... when it really matters.
 

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The problem for Fed I think will be that during a year they are likely to meet as many times on clay as on any other surface combined.
Fed might momentarily catch up only for Nadal to pull away during the clay season.

I don´t think it´s reasonable to expect Fed to improve anymore, not even on clay. At best he might keep his level for another 3 years. But Nadal if uninjured still might improve on hard.

And should endeed Nadal start making finals on a regular basis on hard, it would obviously mean he has improved. And knowing he already is a bad matchup for Fed, Nadal certainly would get his share on victories on hard against Fed.

And as much as I would like it to happen, I don´t believe in this "Fed will eventually figure him out" theory against Nadal anymore.

So no, I don´t think the h2h will be changing. But I wouldn´t be completely surprized if it will.
 

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Of course the h2h is unlikley to change.

So far this year it's 3 clay, 1 non-clay. Granted, there's still a lot of season to go - but for Fed to even this h2h out we're gunna need to see more non-clay matches which doesn't seem likley.

I think Fed pretty much accepts that he won't win everytime against Nadal on clay. He has to really be 'in the zone' to challenge him and that's not going to happen every match. But off clay, I think he'll feel quite good about his chances having won the last 4 non-clay meetings.
 

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...but that will depend on how long Nadal can maintain this go for broke technique of his...
MTF is a funny place. If I didn't know tennis well enough to know not to listen to you folk, I'd be really confused at the thought of a passive, moonballing retriever who goes for broke all the time.
 

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Fed generally keeps his part of the date on clay to meet at the finals; unless Nadal decreases his no-show for the meetings on hard court, the H2H may never go in Fed's favour
 

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MTF is a funny place. If I didn't know tennis well enough to know not to listen to you folk, I'd be really confused at the thought of a passive, moonballing retriever who goes for broke all the time.
He/she probably meant in a running balls down sense. Clearly Nadal isn't a 'go for broke' player in terms of hitting the ball.
 

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In my own uninformed opinion I believe next year each will win the slam the other has gotten the past two years. And after that the H2H remains pretty even, which is where it should be.
 

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Well, Federer finally beat Nadal on clay, regardless of how tired Nadal was; and Nadal almost beat Federer on grass. It only seems natural to me that it's taken to the next level next year for each player. At the very least it'll be the same final again for both slams.

Concerning the H2H, it's fairly even now. They know how to beat each other, and while Federer has the advantage on HC, Nadal has proven he can beat him on it (and the same can be said for both to each other about any other surface save maybe carpet). I would imagine Canada would be Nadal's best chance to beat Federer on a hardcourt Masters event since the court is pretty slow. Although Nadal's game looks pretty iffy so far...
 

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Fedboy has no chance to be de-pigeoned. Especially since Fedboy is getting old and creakier then my 98-year old grandmother.
 

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"they are even in hardcourt"
Nadal has beaten Federer on a HC, but i don't know who has considered them even on HC's considering Rafa has never gotten past the QF's of a HC major and Roger has not lost at the US Open since 03 and has also won 3 AO.
 
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