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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
All losses vs Wins over: Serena, Venus, Jenn, Monica, Jelena, Justine, Amelie, Kim, Lindsay, Martina, Sandrine, Daniela, Chanda

How many wins?
Who's she losing to?
What round is she losing in?

Code:
[color=red]Moscow            SF L DEMENTIEVA   7-6 1-6 5-7[/color]
[color=red]Linz              32 L TULYAGANOVA  2-6 2-6[/color]

2002

[color=red]Sydney            32 L FARINA-ELIA  3-6 2-6[/color]
[color=red]Australian Open   64 L DEMENTIEVA   4-6 2-6[/color]
[color=red]Doha              QF L HUSAROVA     2-6 6-7[/color]
Dubai             QF L V.WILLIAMS   0-6 6-3 4-6   
[color=red]Indian Wells      16 L GAGLIARDI    6-1 6-7 6-7[/color]
Miami             32 L CAPRIATI     6-3 5-7 2-6   

[color=red]Sarasota          QF L SHAUGHNESSY  6-3 6-7 4-6[/color]   
Amelia Island     16 L WILLIAMS     4-6 6-7   
Charleston        QF L CAPRIATI     0-6 5-7   
Hamburg           32 L DOKIC        3-6 6-0 2-6   
Berlin            32 L TESTUD       4-6 5-7   
[color=blue]Rome              64 W HANTUCHOVA   6-4 6-4[/color]
[color=blue]Rome              16 W DOKIC        5-7 6-4 6-3[/color]
Rome              QF L S.WILLIAMS   3-6 4-6   

Birmingham        FR L DOKIC        2-6 3-6   
[color=blue]Eastbourne        SF W HANTUCHOVA   6-2 6-1[/color]
Eastbourne        FR L RUBIN        1-6 3-6   
Wimbledon         32 L MAURESMO     4-6 2-6   

San Diego         16 L DOKIC        4-6 3-6   
[color=red]Canadian Open     64 L FERNANDEZ    3-6 1-6[/color]
[color=blue]New Haven         16 W HENIN        7-5 6-2[/color]
[color=blue]New Haven         QF W HINGIS       6-7 6-4 6-0[/color]
New Haven         SF L DAVENPORT    2-6 2-6   
[color=red]U. S. Open        32 L BEDANOVA     3-6 6-3 2-6[/color]
[color=blue]Bahia             SF W DOKIC        6-2 6-4[/color]
[color=blue]Leipzig           SF W CLIJSTERS    6-4 5-7 7-6[/color]
Leipzig           FR L S.WILLIAMS   6-3 6-2

 7-23
 7 wins over 'elite' players vs
23 losses

Turns out that's a decent record.  
Similar to Hantuchova and Dokic.
The six wins; Hantuchova twice, Dokic twice, Henin and Hingis.
No top five players, but a nce assortment of the others.
Mydkina is definitely top ten quality. So what's holding her back?
Look at these eight 2002 losses.

Code:
Sydney            32 L FARINA-ELIA  3-6 2-6   
Australian Open   64 L DEMENTIEVA   4-6 2-6   
Doha              QF L HUSAROVA     2-6 6-7   
Indian Wells      16 L GAGLIARDI    6-1 6-7 6-7   

Sarasota          QF L SHAUGHNESSY  6-3 6-7 4-6   
Roland Garros    128 L Shinobu ASAGOE 6-3 2-6 5-7
Canadian Open     64 L FERNANDEZ    3-6 1-6   
U. S. Open        32 L BEDANOVA     3-6 6-3 2-6
A top five player wins all of those matches.
A top ten player wins most of them.

You probably be safe grouping her with Jelena, Justine, Kim, Martina, Daniela and Chanda. Bearing in mind Martina was about 60% for that match in New Haven. But a win is a win. Still, I'm not seeing evidence she's ready to go up and hit with the big girls yet. If you want to win GS titles, sooner or later you have to step n the Americans. Anastasia has had the boots put to her everytime she played one of the elite American players.

Code:
Dubai             QF L V.WILLIAMS   0-6 6-3 4-6   
Miami             32 L CAPRIATI     6-3 5-7 2-6   
Amelia Island     16 L WILLIAMS     4-6 6-7   
Charleston        QF L CAPRIATI     0-6 5-7   
Rome              QF L S.WILLIAMS   3-6 4-6   
New Haven         SF L DAVENPORT    2-6 2-6   
Leipzig           FR L S.WILLIAMS   6-3 6-2
She's gotta make a dent in that group.
 

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Recently she wins more and more. Hantuchova and Dokic are quickly becoming her "clients". She never played Kim. It's going to be interesting tomorrow..
 

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Actually she did play Kim once at Wimbledon and won that match 6-4 6-2. That was in 2000.
 

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I was there that day and Nastya was her brilliant self :)

Kim is better now too then Nastya has improved 10 times more since.

She should have beat Jen earlier this yr, had that match occured more recently then Nastya would have won.
 

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Volcana said:

Code:
Sydney            32 L FARINA-ELIA  3-6 2-6   
Australian Open   64 L DEMENTIEVA   4-6 2-6   
Doha              QF L HUSAROVA     2-6 6-7   
Indian Wells      16 L GAGLIARDI    6-1 6-7 6-7   

Sarasota          QF L SHAUGHNESSY  6-3 6-7 4-6   
Canadian Open     64 L FERNANDEZ    3-6 1-6   
U. S. Open        32 L BEDANOVA     3-6 6-3 2-6
A top five player wins all of those matches.
A top ten player wins most of them.

You forgot Roland Garros. She lost to Asagoe (ranked 119) 6-3 2-6 5-7 in the first round. You're also missing Gold Coast...where she lost to Sugiyama (ranked 30) 5-7 3-6.

Out of the losses you listed, the Gagliardi loss is probably the worst one she had. And Gagliardi made the SF of that tournament, losing in three to eventual champ Hantuchova.

Husarova's been having something of a career year.

Fernandez and Bedanova have scored some upsets of their own.

Farina-Elia and Dementieva are top 16 players.

I know you think my loss stats are crap, but it pretty much places her where you have.

The reason I think her ranking isn't as high as, say, Hantuchova isn't because she's losing against the Americans. You can still get near the top without beating them.

She's underperforming in Slams.
 

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Today's win could prove absolutely crucial in Nastya's career. It could be a turning point. Not only she did manage to come back and prevail against such a tough player as Kim. It also basically her first career win against an in-form elite player. Yes, she did beat Dokic and Hantuchova, but with all due respect, neither is an elite player. But Kim is. Russian players haven't beaten those few elite players since Elena D. beat Lindsay at Chase two years ago.

But it is quite a brutal thing for Nastya to play Serena tomorrow. I have very low expectations. Serena is not just #1 now. She is miles better than anyone else. And she is a type of player - ( power players with accent on relentless attacking weak serves of opponent ) that Nastya really seems to hate playing. No chance, I guess. If Nastya takes 5 games, I'd consider it an OK match for her.
 

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Kim more elite than Daniela or Jelena? Nope. Dani and Kim have similar potentials, but both underachieve- Kim when she feels like it and Dani at the tier twos and below. Jelena over achieves, but is ranked much higher than Kim.
 

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Next year, Anastasia's major goal will probably be to improve her Slam record. This year she lost 3rd round or earlier in every Slam. She is way too good for a crummy record like that, and I expect her to improve it dramatically in 2003.

And I agree with y_s, today's win was a very, very improtant one in Anastasia's career. It is all coming together now for her -- all except those Slam results! That's for 2003.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
'More elite' is an amorphous concept at best. Kim, Dani and Jelena are all basically in the same mix of players, but you have to give the edge to Kim when you compare them to each other.

Code:
              [u]Clijsters[/u]   [u]Dokic[/u]    [u]Hantochova[/u]

Birthdays     06-08-83    04-12-83  04-23-83

GS Champs           0        0         0
GS Finals           1        0         0
GS Semis            1        1         0
GS Quarter          2        2         2

Tier I   wins       0        2         1
Tier II  wins       4        1         0
Tier III wins       2        1         0
Tier IV  wins       0        1         0
Tier V   wins       1        0         0

Total    wins       7        5         1 

Record vs The 'Top Group'*

Hantochova     0-8
Clijsters      3-16
Dokic          2-17

Head-to-head

Kim vs Daniela     1-0
Kim vs Jelena      4-2

Jelena vs Kim      2-4
Jelena vs Daniela  0-3

Daniela vs Kim     0-1
Daniela vs Jelena  3-0  

*The Top Group' - Serena, Venus, Lindsay, Jenn
Kim comes out on top in every category except Tier I wins. And she's won 4 Tier II's.

Anastasia's win over Kim is not the same as beating Venus or Lindsay. But it IS a half-step up from beating Jelena or Daniela.
 
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