Mens Tennis Forums banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,439 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Im gonna be translating one interesting article from Serbian to English, so please excuse me for any grammatical errors.

Original -> http://www.b92.net/sport/rolandgarros2015/ozmo-na-sljaci.php?yyyy=2015&mm=05&dd=29&nav_id=998075

What will happen to the tennis after the era of Federer / Nadal? It was recently reported on the front page of a French magazine.

In the current season, Novak Djokovic has won all the major tournaments in which he played, and if one looks at the figures starting from 2011, the Serbian tennis player is superior to the ATP tour.
This title again actualised the story as Novak doesn't get much recognition from tennis public, media and sponsors, and the logical question - why is that?

We have searched for the answer in a conversation with two experienced journalists whose specialty is tennis - with Carol Bouchard, who worked for nine years in L'Equipe and has experience of more than a decade on the tennis tournaments, as well as New York Times columnist Christopher Clarey, already 25 years at Grand Slam tournaments.

The shortest answer would be summed up in two items - powerful sponsors behind Federer and Nadal, and the fact that Djokovic comes from a small country like Serbia.

"He had the misfortune to come after Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal. But it would be fair to say that we look at Djokovic's era since 2011, but before him there were two 'beasts', two guys with a huge base of fans and marketing potential. It's hard to take their place, but I think that people rarely say that this is the Federer-Nadal era, which is logical considering that the Djokovic three of the last four years ended in the first place, "says Carol Bouchard.

Real illustration of different treatment in the media is the statement of Roger Federer after losing to Djokovic in the semifinals of the US Open in 2011 and that famous Novak servis return on match point. Roger said that it was a "lucky shot" and added:

"Self-confidence? Are you kidding? I mean, please. Some players grow up playing so - losing by 5:2 and then start to slap the ball all around. I never played that way, I believe that hard work pays off, because in the beginning I did not always done the most valuable thing. It's hard to understand - how can you play such move on a match point. "


True, and then in some prominent media, primarily in the Guardian, said that the statement was not exactly full of respect for the opponent, but imagine the public reaction if the roles were reversed? We asked Christopher Clarey to imagine the situation.

"That's a good question - I think that statement wasn't treated as normal by all. Some people have said that this is not very gallant way to receive the defeat, it was a spectacular shot. Overall, I think Federer is popular across the globe and has a large creditability on people, higher even than it has Novak at the moment, but that could change, "
says Clarey and cites himself as an example:

"I follow Novak since he played futures - he is extremely smart, funny and has a good view of the world. When I write my articles about him, I try to show his features. "

When he first appeared on the ATP tour, Novak behaved much more relaxed - imitating his colleagues, making show wherever he could and gave a much bolder, some would say less diplomatic statements.

"The way Roger and Rafa act for some reason became the only correct model of how should behave," adds former journalist of L'Equipe.

As time passed, and Novak becoming more mature, his statements became more and more carefully planned and now rarely jumps out of the box . Thanks to his outstanding performance, but also his changing behavior that led to the gradual change of image, so has Djokovic attracted major sponsors, starting with the Peugeot and onwards. An ideal example of such statement is precisely Novak's answer to the question of the title, "Federer / Nadal era".

"How to say this? I have a huge respect for what these two guys achieve and the way they represent our sport - and in the field, but also outside of it, responsible and aware of who they are, and tennis in many ways led to a higher level. For me it is somehow a privilege to be in the era with them, "said Novak, adding:

"Because of them, I grew as a player and as a person and partially because of them Im where Im now. Now, if people want to call this era a Federer / Nadal or want me to throw in the combination and to be called the era of the three players, it is entirely subjective and relative. Everyone has the freedom of choice, especially in journalism, to do what he wants. I can not bring that into question ".

Would anyone had the right to complain if Novak after that praise of Federer and Nadal, said that it might be a little annoying, or at least believes that it's not true in the last three and a half years when he was clearly dominant?

Maybe that is something Djokovic would have said seven or eight years ago, but today's Djokovic learned his lesson because he was already several times "greeted with hostility" after the statement which differ from the usual . Proclaimed him arrogant after statements from 2006 that "Nadal isn't invincible on clay" and there was a slight ridicule when he claimed that he wanted to be the best in the years when he looked in the back of Federer and Nadal.

"He was 'wild' when he was younger. The real question is 'did Novak has a choice'? Can you act like you do not care what other people think when you're number one in the world? In this era, when Roger and Rafa are professional, nice and politically correct, do not make the wrong moves in the field of communication with the public? It is difficult to deviate. I think Novak is still 'himself', still temperamental, but remains within the limits in order to avoid too much pressure and bad feedback from the public." says Bouchard.

Also, the issue is particularly initially posed as Djokovic comes from a small country, and for the media and for the sponsors. Adidas, for example, decided to Andy Murray before Novak - although Serbian tennis player achieved more in his career, Britain and the rest of the Anglo world are certainly larger market then of small Serbia.

"It's definitely more difficult that he comes from a small country - maybe not so much for the biggest media, but within the entire sports industry probably yes. When they know that behind you is a small market, you don't receive such marketing giants behind you when you're younger. In this case it's an interesting story - Novak background, country of origin and politically interesting, but yes, all the big sponsors haven't given him as a junior enough support that would be given to someone from Britain, France, the US or Japan." said Clarey and Bouchard add:

Nike is really powerful, Nadal and Federer have long occupied the position and it is difficult to find your place. However, taking into account the results of Novak, his personality and the fact that he speaks several languages, it can be good/is good ambassador for numerous brands."

The situation is much better than it was earlier (Novak has repeatedly talked about how his father and him were watched in the beginning), Djokovic enjoys greater respect for the media and achieves marketing capabilities pretty effective. However ...

"Roger and Rafa, as we say in the US, take up a lot of air in the room , its simply like that, and it takes years to create a new narrative. As long as they are there/here, Novak will be difficult to gain a lot of respect that he deserves. But you know what - without them, Novak would not be what it is now, " concluded Clarey.

We'll see how the situation will develop further, but titles like that from the beginning of the text should not be repeated. For a simple reason - no longer correspond to the facts.

Saša Ozmo (ozmo_sasa)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
923 Posts
I'll make your wall of text null and void: Fed has more than twice the number of slams Djokovic has, and Nadal leads Djokovic 9-3 in slams.

Only explanation you need
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,801 Posts
Novak deserves great respect. He will never be as popular as Nadal or Federer, but what he does on the court is impressive. He is close H2H to them, he beat them 39 times. Ponder! 39 times. Djokovic has his career, his way, not as bright as Nadal and Federer, but nevertheless magnificent. This strong personality. In General, the era of Nadal, Federer and Djokovic is the best in tennis. Three stunning champion. We should be proud that saw them battle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,311 Posts
Nole deserves respect but come on. What do you want people to do? To Ignore what Roger and Rafa have accomplished? If Nole wins this French, he is already in the discussion with the other 2 as the GOATs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,423 Posts
Thanks OP for this article. We had here thread about Novak´s popularity, marketing and so on, now all those guys saying country and other stuff has nothing to do with it i hope they will stop that. Clearly Novak being from Serbia is somehow hindering him. Also those who make fun of PR stuff or PR evolvement - this explains it - as No.1 you can´t behave like when you are 18. All those Kyrgios fans for example do you really believe if your guy will be in 5-6 years No.1 will behave like now? those hair and everything - antics on court? i doubt it - age, PR team and rensposibility if you are top 3 or so it makes so difficult to behave ,,naturally,,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,439 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I'll make your wall of text null and void: Fed has more than twice the number of slams Djokovic has, and Nadal leads Djokovic 9-3 in slams.

Only explanation you need


Its an article i translated. Im not even Djokovic fan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,530 Posts
I think the problem is that Djokovic hasn't had an uniform domination in the slams. He achieved 50% of all his slams in the 13 month period going from January 2011 to February 2012. After that, his record in slams is lackluster (but that might change this year).

From a public opinion perspective, slams far eclipse any other tournament, including the WTF. Slams are global events, covered in mainstream news.

For example, Nadal managed to win 1 more slam than Djokovic in the 2012-2014 period, which is considered as part of the "Djokovic era". The biggest news in those 3 years wasn't Novak winning masters and the WTF. The biggest news were:

- Nadal's amazing comeback in 2013, including his domination in the US summer hardcourt season.
- Nadal's ability to deny Djokovic at the French Open, despite the high expectations put on Djokovic to finally break his monopoly and decade-long domination there. Yes, the most anticipated matches have been the Nadal/Djokovic matches in Roland Garros, and the winner has so far been Nadal.
- Federer's 17th slam title.

Finally, I think that the USO has a specially high specific weight regarding commercial interest, sponsor attention, etc. And for Novak (a "hardcourt specialist") to have such a poor record there, it's a failure with logical consequences.

Maybe things will change this year, I don't know. I'm just describing the current state of affairs in the most logical way possible.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
6,485 Posts
In b4 the inevitable moving of this to off topic.
Of course Novak is never going to be as popular as Fedal, and probably won't eclipse their achievements, but what he has done in taking the sport to a new level will never be forgotten.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,306 Posts
Switzerland 8 million, Serbia 7 million, I do not think the difference is all about home country population size.

Federer broke all records, and if not better than all before him, better than all before for a long time. Nadal came along as even a challenge to this new great Federer with a domination on clay and a rivalry at Wimbledon.

The point is tha what those two achived was seen as new, heights not reached before. To get the same attention, Novak has to not match them, but also carve his own new mark.

Basically, if a new player came along just like Federer only slightly better, everyone would say 'oh, that has been done before' and Federer would still attract the attention. Novak is different, but even if his career surpasses Federer Nadal it is not enough, he has to bring things to a new height, not a similar height than they did before.

For the sport and fans he could become the best ever, but since that has been done quite recently for the general public that alone is not so new at the moment. The 'best ever' crown has be said enough about someone, and the challenger to the 'best ever' has also been done. Tough act to have to go further than that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,465 Posts
Same arguments come up here and they are irrelevant.

Switzerland has a small population? So? Switzerland is not in Eastern Europe, it's not in the middle east, it's not in Africa. There are countries with a recently negative political history that keep marketers away. Not to say that all countries in these places would suffer from this - if Fed identified as South African he would still get major support. Dimitrov is hyped even though he is Bulgarian etc.

And slams are the reason Federer and Nadal are considered by some to be the greatest recently, but they have little to do with this. Read the article. Murray, who had accomplished next to nothing at that point, had no trouble finding big name sponsors.

Djokovic has been the greatest sportsman since 2011, but to be considered above Fedal he will have to surpass some of their achievements. Actually, it's enough to match them because they are all active at the same time.

That baby Djokovic is decried as arrogant for saying Nadal is not invincible on clay (BBQF June 3rd!) but mature, should-know better Federer escapes unscathed after his sour grapes comments at the USO (The Shot™) is proof of the media's understandable but unfair bias.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Why do Serbs have such an inferiority complex? Switzerland is no larger than Serbia.

Djokovic hasn't accomplished as much as Federer and Nadal. For much of his career he has been number 3. He hasn't dominated since 2011, both Federer and Nadal have reached number 1 during this period. Plus, Djokovic and his family have not always been easy to like. They have been much better in recent years but first impressions can take time to overcome. I don't think he will ever be as popular as Federer, just a fact of life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
943 Posts
Switzerland is barely bigger than Serbia, though :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,465 Posts
Why do Serbs have such an inferiority complex? Switzerland is no larger than Serbia.
Switzerland is barely bigger than Serbia, though :rolleyes:
Here, in case you missed it the first time:

Same arguments come up here and they are irrelevant.

Switzerland has a small population? So? Switzerland is not in Eastern Europe, it's not in the middle east, it's not in Africa. There are countries with a recently negative political history that keep marketers away. Not to say that all countries in these places would suffer from this - if Fed identified as South African he would still get major support. Dimitrov is hyped even though he is Bulgarian etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,438 Posts
Why do Serbs have such an inferiority complex? Switzerland is no larger than Serbia.

Djokovic hasn't accomplished as much as Federer and Nadal. For much of his career he has been number 3. He hasn't dominated since 2011, both Federer and Nadal have reached number 1 during this period. Plus, Djokovic and his family have not always been easy to like. They have been much better in recent years but first impressions can take time to overcome. I don't think he will ever be as popular as Federer, just a fact of life.
Nationality based generalisations are bad form, in my opinion.

If you chose not to see reality, it is your problem. I started a thread with all the numbers for the past 4.5 years. All the relevant facts are there. You obviously don't know them, otherwise you wouldn't be saying what you are saying about Novak's domination. :shrug:

But just let me tell you that Floyd Mayweather, a wife-beater, earned in half an hour more money than Roger has earned in his entire career. Why? Because he's more popular...More people are prepared to pay money to see him than any tennis event. Just a fact of life.

Who cares? :shrug:

Money can sell any product...Hence popularity is a misleading commodity.

However, the reason you, and many other people, casual fans, have a misconception about Novak's achievemnets is because you have been mislead by an unprofessional media which behaves like a fan instead of doing their job properly.

To expect the media, journos, TV commentators, tournament directors and everybody else involved in tennis to behave professionally and to put their personal preferences on hold, is not having an inferiority complex...I call it expecting high standards from our sport. Those standards have been dropped due to the idolatry that has inundated our sport.

It is not a big problem because history will set the records straight. But let us not pretend that it has not happened. Our community will not be judged kindly by history. It is not about popularity, it is about respect and fairness. Watch the video of the Rome final (just one recent example of hundreds over the last 10 years) and watch the face of Nicola Pietrangelli. See if that face is the face that a tournament director should have. He should not behave like a fan...It is bad form.

If will end. And all this will reflect on the people behaving like this, not on Novak, who has done nothing but elevate this sport and devote his life to being the best tennis player than he can be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,015 Posts
Federer is from a middle class family in Switzerland, a country not known for sports elites. Federer was not a fan favorite early in his career, Americans cheered for Agassi and Roddick, he won the crowd over over time.

Nadal is the opposite of Federer. So fans split into two camps and tennis has a great story.

Djokovic was voted behind Dimitrov from Bulgaria( east Europe) last years ATP fan favorite player. But he also have large sponsers, he may not be Fedal level but I won't call it a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,517 Posts
Nationality based generalisations are bad form, in my opinion.

If you chose not to see reality, it is your problem. I started a thread with all the numbers for the past 4.5 years. All the relevant facts are there. You obviously don't know them, otherwise you wouldn't be saying what you are saying about Novak's domination. :shrug:

But just let me tell you that Floyd Mayweather, a wife-beater, earned in half an hour more money than Roger has earned in his entire career. Why? Because he's more popular...More people are prepared to pay money to see him than any tennis event. Just a fact of life.

Who cares? :shrug:

Money can sell any product...Hence popularity is a misleading commodity.

However, the reason you, and many other people, casual fans, have a misconception about Novak's achievemnets is because you have been mislead by an unprofessional media which behaves like a fan instead of doing their job properly.

To expect the media, journos, TV commentators, tournament directors and everybody else involved in tennis to behave professionally and to put their personal preferences on hold, is not having an inferiority complex...I call it expecting high standards from our sport. Those standards have been dropped due to the idolatry that has inundated our sport.

It is not a big problem because history will set the records straight. But let us not pretend that it has not happened. Our community will not be judged kindly by history. It is not about popularity, it is about respect and fairness. Watch the video of the Rome final (just one recent example of hundreds over the last 10 years) and watch the face of Nicola Pietrangelli. See if that face is the face that a tournament director should have. He should not behave like a fan...It is bad form.

If will end. And all this will reflect on the people behaving like this, not on Novak, who has done nothing but elevate this sport and devote his life to being the best tennis player than he can be.


Stop it please! Everyone who understand tennis will tell you that Federer is the best player ever. Djokovic has a game but he is more like as Nadal and Murray. AO 12 final was boring as hell. If you ask Djokovic he would tell you that the best final he has been a part of is Wimbeldon Final last year. I mean tennis wise. Even Safin had more game than Djokovic. If you think only winning titles make you the best ever than you are wrong. Federer sould be crazy if he has played 2 or 3 hours battle in Rome Final just before FO. It is only a MS. If it was so easy to win GS' Djokovic could have more than one great year 2011.
Nadal is more than alive and you could be sure. Nothing is wrong with him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,465 Posts
Stop it please! Everyone who understand tennis will tell you that Federer is the best player ever. Djokovic has a game but he is more like as Nadal and Murray. AO 12 final was boring as hell. If you ask Djokovic he would tell you that the best final he has been a part of is Wimbeldon Final last year. I mean tennis wise. Even Safin had more game than Djokovic. If you think only winning titles make you the best ever than you are wrong. Federer sould be crazy if he has played 2 or 3 hours battle in Rome Final just before FO. It is only a MS. If it was so easy to win GS' Djokovic could have more than one great year 2011.
Nadal is more than alive and you could be sure. Nothing is wrong with him.
Ah yes, you're the person who thinks Federer could've won Rome, one of the masters he has never and now will never get, but tanked to let Djokovic win.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,758 Posts
People just don't seem to get it, that the whole "GOAT", "Fedal", "War of the Tennis Worlds" narrative was created by companies like Nike and others that have interests in their brand ambassadors being whored around like piece of meat. And that is all they will every be to them, a carrot for the masses, to lure them into more mindless consumption of the newer 24.0 AirMax Laser Guided Fedal sneaker. They buy off journalists, tournaments and players to spin the story in any way they please. People are eating that shit up, with a big spoon. Hence the Nike profits and the ridiculous tournament money rising. It works. And surely enough, if Fed and Rafa ended their career tomorrow, they would shift to Novak like flies on shit, and start the whole mindless "new GOAT" debate that would engulf the popular culture debate.

Djokovic came to an era of massive marketing of Federer and Nadal. Of course there is no chance of his recognition, because recognition = marketing power. People who control the money, control the story. Djokovic's smart move was to shift to the new and emerging huge markets of Asia, where he will reap rewards of recognition and marketing power in the future.

edit: Just an idea about Nike's "marketing operations" - http://qz.com/415332/if-nike-and-adidas-are-losers-in-the-fifa-scandal-this-company-is-the-winner/
 
  • Like
Reactions: BlackeyeVuk

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,530 Posts
Stop it please! Everyone who understand tennis will tell you that Federer is the best player ever. Djokovic has a game but he is more like as Nadal and Murray. AO 12 final was boring as hell. If you ask Djokovic he would tell you that the best final he has been a part of is Wimbeldon Final last year. I mean tennis wise. Even Safin had more game than Djokovic. If you think only winning titles make you the best ever than you are wrong. Federer sould be crazy if he has played 2 or 3 hours battle in Rome Final just before FO. It is only a MS. If it was so easy to win GS' Djokovic could have more than one great year 2011.
Nadal is more than alive and you could be sure. Nothing is wrong with him.
Nadal (the guy with the 23:10 H2H, who played the most epic matches in recent history including what many consoder the best match in history, and with a reasonable chance to beat Federer's slam record) is more like Djokovic and Murray?



Also, your Rome comment demonstrates you haven't been watching tennis for too long. Ever heard of Rome 2006? :facepalm:
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top