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Discussion Starter #1
I think perhaps there are two military situations Martina might well study.

The Vietnamese at Dien Bien Phu.
The Israelis at the Golan Heights.

In both cases, the problem was height.

The French occupied a valley ('a hole' their commander called it), named Dien Bien Phu. It was surrounded by steep ravines, and the French were certain that the Vietnamese could not mount heavy artillery on the ravine walls. They walls were virtually vertical, and it was jungle. That being the case, it was a highly defensible position. Sort of like a power player facing Hingis from the baseline. "I can kill you from here, and you can't touch me. And you can't get to net to hurt me."

The Vietnamese literally dragged artillery pieces up the cliff-face by hand, and dug into the cliffs to mount them. And ran the French out of Vietnam, as they had the Chinese before them, and the Americans after them. (The Vietnamese have proven themselves nasty little buggers for 3000 years. You'd think foreigners would get the idea, and stay the fuck out.)

The Isrealis had the opposite problem. They had to crawl up the cliff-face with Syrian artillery shooting at them. YOuhave to understand, the cliffs up to the Golan Heights is not an area with a lot of cover. The Israelis knew they'd take potentially HEAVY losses getting up there. But if they didn't, the Syrians could and would shell Israeli military positions/settlements with impunity.

In the Vietnamese, we have classic net play. If you get to the net, the advantages of you bigger, stronger opponent are neutralized.

The Isrealis show the problem. You're VULNERABLE when you're climbing the cliff, or approaching the net. You have to be willing to absorb casualties. Or, in tennis terms, you're gonna get passed, so decide if winning is worth that.

Martina has the shots to beat power play. Its her volleys. The problem is getting off the baseline.

But if the Vietnamese and the Israelis had stayed onthe baseline, Vietnam would still be a French colony, and Israel quite possibly wouldn't exist at all.
 

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The problem is Maritna is allergic to being passed at the net, I don't see ANY way she can beat the power players if she doesn't get over that though.
 

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another thread for martina today

Thanks to evryone :) :) :)
 

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Martina fans, get over it. I know it hurts to see these threads, but Martina loosing to Nadia Petrova is pathetic and unacceptable. As Martina fans, you should stop making excuses and think about what your fave needs to do. Volcana, as usual this is an excellent analysis from an obviously brilliant mind. Thanks for posting and keep it up.
 

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Martina fans are depressed- it's understandable
Martina may have not played well
but I also think Nadia is underrated-true she isn't that mentally tough but she does have a game to compete against the top 10-

Am I ever going to a see a VENUS and Martina match again (in the near future) :(
Good luck Hingis-improve your serve

what a year can do -A year ago I would NEVER have said that
 

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I must say (for the second time in two days) that this makes sense.

It's a strange analogy but it kinds of explain the point pretty well.

What I might add is, I agree the vietnamese showed the advantages of being in an offensive position limiting your opponent's option ("at the net").
The israelis showed that you need to take risks to get to that advantageous position, and that if you don't do that, you are screwed.

But both, the israelis and the vietnamese needed to skills, and imagination to get there.

To get to the net you need basically three things:

1) a good net game, Martina has it, she actually has a pretty good net game.
2) The will to do it, and to take risks, that's related to confidence and to be willing to stand the "shame" of getting passed. It can be built but it requires time and of course, she needs to start it.
3) a way there, an approach shot, it can be a good serve that Martina doesn't have, a big deep groundstroke that puts your opponent off balance, or a very well executed slice approach, cutting off the angles, giving the opponent a short time to decide where to hit the passing shot. Martina can use the third option and only occassionally the second, the first is out of question and this is the difficult part of it.

Jana Novotna, a fantastic volleyer had an extraordinary approach shot and an excellent serve (when it worked), so did Navratilova, Pat Rafter, etc.

Those players not only had a good serve, they had a server tailored for a serve and volleyer, a kick serve, rather well placed than powerful, but fast enough.
 

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MBOYLE SHUT YOUR GOD DAMM MOUTH, It would be totally different if your Favorite Player suddenly lost. There is a thing could content and love and I think we have a right to grieve :rolleyes: and stop trying to suck up to people :rolleyes: or is it your occupation.



For me right now, tennis should be the priority."

Is it her priority?

We don't know for sure. I haven't heard of anything else for awhile, and that includes Sergio.

But there's always the chance she hasn't worked hard enough during her lay off because she is in a new relationship and perhaps she was working on that.

But the fact is, Petrova is a big girl (5'10" plus) with a big serve and once again, Martina fell to superior power.

I have been seriously worried since Indian Wells, where she played brilliantly all tournament long, until she met up with a big girl with power in the form of Hantuchova.

But big girls with power are becoming as common as actresses with breast implants.

If you were a tennis coach these days and trying to groom someone to make it big in the WTA, would you even look at a fully grown girl who stands 5'7" who weights 130 pounds soaking wet? Most coaches these days wouldn't waste their time on somebody that small.

These are the real issues confronting Martina. As today proved, it is no longer just Lindsay and Venus and Serena. It's Jennifer, Daniela, Amelie,Jelena, Kim, Bovina (two titles already this year) and on and on and on.

The sport is changing rapidly, the serve is clearly becoming the dominate shot in women's tennis and you don't have to be an all court, all around player to win. You just have to be able to blast your way out of trouble with big serving.

Can Martina stay competitive, much less win more slams? That is now a real question.

In order to become competitive, she is going to have to get much stronger, much fitter, much faster.

She has no choice but to develope a much better serve. She will also have to continue coming in to net. (even though it was a disaster today, when you start becoming a net rusher, you have to take your licks. You will fail miserably for a time, but if you have the volley skills and we know she does, it will get better.)

But the real issue facing Martina is, what are the odds now of her succeeding in the face of so many bigger, stronger opponents, people who have advantages she simply cannot acquire?

Martina and Melanie know this better than any of us. The question is, what are they, and especially what is the Swiss Miss, doing about it?

Let's hope we have some answers by the end of the year.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I think coaches would LOVE to find the next Justine Henin.

Boy, I wrote a lot in that opening thread. I wonder how the atnosphere is .....
 

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Don't read too much from this loss. There is no ready recipy for Martina to get on winning track. Do not forget - she is just *STARTING* to come back from injury. She lost to Petrova? So what..

Last year at KC she lost to Dementieva 2 and 2. And? By AO she was again at her best and should have won it if it wasn't for heat.

She has no confidence now, but offseason break will serve a great equalizer in that sense. Everyone will be even in terms of confidence come year 2003.

My prediction - Hingis will reach at least semifinal at AO 2003.
 

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Another Alusive Proverb. :rolleyes:

Yes before then Justine Henin was allready being coached, and till then we didin't know the game of heavy hitting was going to take its toll.

You can't use Justine in your examples because the difference of time these generalizations were happeningand then we didin't know that power game would of taking its toll.

Oh yeah and the other post, yes I am, because you don't go striaght to the point of your threads "Indirectness" you never go straight to the point, around it to get to the point but with an indirective generalization, plus long posts go along with quality not quantity :rolleyes: C'mon your chance to be a hypocrite
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Allegra - You're posting in a thread I started, not the other way around. If you find the stuff I post so distasteful, why are you posting? My name was on the link, so you knew it was a thread by someone who's writing you dislike.
Why even click on the link?

When you opened it, it had to be clear it was a lengthy initial post.
Why even take the time to read more mindless drivel written by someone who, to quote you, 'when your mouth is shut the atmosphere is alot nicer.'?

What's the point of making your own life miserable?

One of the best aspects of the board is that you know who starts every thread, so you can avoid the ones written by those you despise. This is something you could take advantage of, rather than suffering with what passes for my ideas.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Fingon - If Martina went to net EARLY in points, like right away on every other 2nd serve, she'd have many more chances to successfully get to net. Waiting until a power player is into a rally is just a way to get pinned to the baseline. That 2nd serve might be the slowest, shallowest shot Martina sees the whole rally.

Also, simply GOING to net makes the opponent rush a little. They miss more. She has enough tools to get to net consistently against almost anyone's 2nd serve but Lindsay and Serena.

Course, I didn't play in the OZ final last year.
 

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Volcana, it doesn't matter if I Dislike what you post, it's the amount of humour that counts in it. Like you can't get blood out of a stone,

I just find them halarious, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!
It's because when you post your not doing it for people, your doing it for you own attention look before you leap. and for an indirect generalization all work and no play makes jack a dull boy.

Use statastics that just don't gloat a penny saved is a penny earned??

Understand ??After all is said and done, more is said than done
 

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Hi Daniel, I suppose you love this kind of threads:p ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Allegra - Finally I understand. What you're saying is I should write whatever I want, and to hell with anyone who doesn't like it. But if they complain, that's their right too. Ah. So I'll continue just as I have.

But thanks for the advice.
 
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