[Roy Emerson]

Taken from rec.sport.tennis


Since Djokovic is 8-8 on major finals, let's see how good/bad that is...

MAJOR FINALS WIN% (players with 10+ finals):

Win% Opp Player

90 % 2 % Anthony Wilding
80 % 31 % Roy Emerson
80 % 66 % Ellsworth Vines
78 % 14 % Pete Sampras
71 % 75 % Rafael Nadal
71 % 25 % Fred Perry
70 % 19 % John Newcombe
70 % 82 % Rene Lacoste
69 % 34 % Bjorn Borg
67 % 32 % Pancho Gonzales
67 % 39 % Donald Budge
66 % 51 % Ken Rosewall
65 % 29 % Roger Federer
65 % 50 % Henri Cochet
64 % 31 % Mats Wilander
64 % 73 % John McEnroe
63 % 41 % William Tilden
61 % 74 % Rod Laver
60 % 53 % Boris Becker
56 % 25 % Andre Agassi
55 % 35 % Stefan Edberg
55 % 32 % Robert Riggs
53 % 75 % Jimmy Connors
53 % 32 % Frank Sedgman
50 % 61 % Novak Djokovic
50 % 30 % Jack Crawford
50 % 84 % Hans Nusslein
42 % 60 % Ivan Lendl
40 % 64 % William Johnston
36 % 58 % Jean Borotra
31 % 96 % Lewis Hoad
27 % 85 % Pancho Segura


"Opp" = avg opponent strength, average from:
1. Percentage of facing 5+ major champs
2. major finals reached by average opponent

-

("majors" = slams, pro slams, olympics, wcc, whcc)

 

[doubletrollt]

Those 1 and 2 avg opponent strength % means a s**t, e.g. Nadal was never in Djokovic half at Wimbledon, AO and USO since 2007 USO, whereas almost always at RG , Nadal's best surface, when they were not seeds 1%2.

Djokovic always had to play peak Federer 2008-11 before the AO and USO finals, Nadal never, because always on the other side of the draw from two best HC players then.

Since 2012 it's Nadal that is always placed with Federer at AO, USO, Wimb. because Federer is no longer Peakerer but Olderer in bo5, and Djokovic now always plays HC Stanimal before AO/USO finals, Nadal again never with those two before the AO/USO finals.

etc.

Who is better Lendl with 8-11 or guys with 8:4 who couldn't even made those seven finals.

Tony Wilding made seven finals 6/7 85%, Ellsworth Vines four 3/4 without pro slams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Championships,_Wimbledon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Wilding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellsworth_Vines

"...Until 1922, the reigning champion had to play only in the final, against whomever had won through to challenge him/her. As with the other three Major or Grand Slam events, Wimbledon was contested by top-ranked amateur players, professional players were prohibited from participating ..."

Pro slams were maybe stronger but the top players would've played only two rounds before the finals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wembley_Professional_Championships_Draws

 

[Rios Drop Volley]

78 % 14 % Pete Sampras

That 14% is the lowest..NID

 

[MrMarble]

For anyone interested, here's a bit more unambiguous representation of opponent strength, for players who played at least 7 major finals...

AVERAGE OPPONENT STRENGTH IN MAJOR FINALS:			
5+	Avg W	Avg F	
			
100%	08	15	Rene Lacoste
100%	12	20	Andy Murray
100%	09	14	Gottfried Von Cramm
85%	18	28	Lewis Hoad
82%	08	14	John McEnroe
80%	10	15	Hans Nusslein
80%	07	12	Ellsworth Vines
79%	06	10	Ivan Lendl
75%	05	09	Karel Kozeluh
75%	09	12	Fred Stolle
73%	09	15	Jimmy Connors
73%	12	18	Pancho Segura
73%	06	10	Jean Borotra
71%	09	16	Rafael Nadal
71%	05	10	Vincent Richards
71%	06	10	Jim Courier
71%	05	09	Henri Cochet
70%	06	12	Boris Becker
67%	04	08	William Tilden
61%	12	19	Rod Laver
60%	05	09	Donald Budge
60%	09	16	William Johnston
57%	08	12	Arthur Ashe
56%	10	15	Novak Djokovic
56%	05	10	Bjorn Borg
56%	04	05	Arthur Gore
55%	06	10	Stefan Edberg
55%	05	11	Mats Wilander
55%	05	07	Robert Riggs
50%	04	09	Fred Perry
50%	06	09	Jack Crawford
50%	05	08	Guillermo Vilas
49%	09	18	Ken Rosewall
48%	06	13	Pancho Gonzales
47%	06	11	Frank Sedgman
44%	06	11	Tony Trabert
43%	10	16	Neale Fraser
43%	04	08	Jack Kramer
43%	04	06	Gerald Patterson
42%	06	11	Roger Federer
39%	04	08	Pete Sampras
38%	06	09	Andre Agassi
38%	06	10	Jaroslav Drobny
38%	02	05	Laurence Doherty
33%	07	14	Roy Emerson
30%	06	10	John Newcombe
25%	04	06	John Bromwich
22%	02	04	William Larned
20%	01	04	Anthony Wilding
00%	01	05	William Renshaw
00%	00	02	Richard Sears
			
			
5+ = Percentage of 5+ major champs faced in the finals			
Avg W  = Average amount of major titles for opponents			
Avg F = Average amount of major finals for opponents

 

[Moozza]

For anyone interested, here's a bit more unambiguous representation of opponent strength, for players who played at least 7 major finals...

AVERAGE OPPONENT STRENGTH IN MAJOR FINALS:			
5+	Avg W	Avg F	
			
100%	08	15	Rene Lacoste
100%	12	20	Andy Murray
100%	09	14	Gottfried Von Cramm
85%	18	28	Lewis Hoad
82%	08	14	John McEnroe
80%	10	15	Hans Nusslein
80%	07	12	Ellsworth Vines
79%	06	10	Ivan Lendl
75%	05	09	Karel Kozeluh
75%	09	12	Fred Stolle
73%	09	15	Jimmy Connors
73%	12	18	Pancho Segura
73%	06	10	Jean Borotra
71%	09	16	Rafael Nadal
71%	05	10	Vincent Richards
71%	06	10	Jim Courier
71%	05	09	Henri Cochet
70%	06	12	Boris Becker
67%	04	08	William Tilden
61%	12	19	Rod Laver
60%	05	09	Donald Budge
60%	09	16	William Johnston
57%	08	12	Arthur Ashe
56%	10	15	Novak Djokovic
56%	05	10	Bjorn Borg
56%	04	05	Arthur Gore
55%	06	10	Stefan Edberg
55%	05	11	Mats Wilander
55%	05	07	Robert Riggs
50%	04	09	Fred Perry
50%	06	09	Jack Crawford
50%	05	08	Guillermo Vilas
49%	09	18	Ken Rosewall
48%	06	13	Pancho Gonzales
47%	06	11	Frank Sedgman
44%	06	11	Tony Trabert
43%	10	16	Neale Fraser
43%	04	08	Jack Kramer
43%	04	06	Gerald Patterson
42%	06	11	Roger Federer
39%	04	08	Pete Sampras
38%	06	09	Andre Agassi
38%	06	10	Jaroslav Drobny
38%	02	05	Laurence Doherty
33%	07	14	Roy Emerson
30%	06	10	John Newcombe
25%	04	06	John Bromwich
22%	02	04	William Larned
20%	01	04	Anthony Wilding
00%	01	05	William Renshaw
00%	00	02	Richard Sears
			
			
5+ = Percentage of 5+ major champs faced in the finals			
Avg W  = Average amount of major titles for opponents			
Avg F = Average amount of major finals for opponents

Just shows how tough Murray has had it in finals. Easily the the unluckiest player of all time going by those stats. With a more normal average quality of opponent would no doubt have 4 or 5 slams by now.

 

[MrMarble]

Just shows how tough Murray has had it in finals. Easily the the unluckiest player of all time going by those stats. With a more normal average quality of opponent would no doubt have 4 or 5 slams by now.

Yes, Andy has had it extremely tough... perhaps only Lacoste and Von Cramm had it as tough, the latter which also had to take phone calls from Hitler during his matches! Ouch

 

[doubletrollt]

Yes, Andy has had it extremely tough... perhaps only Lacoste and Von Cramm had it as tough, the latter which also had to take phone calls from Hitler during his matches! Ouch

Djokovic on the other side had "the easiest possible" ways to slam finals ever in history i.e. at RG almost always being placed in Nadal's half and at HC slams (AO/USO) always in Peakerer's half 2008-11, two GOATs on the reepective surfaces.

Nadal on the other side never in Djokovic half at AO/USO/Wimb. since USO 2007, even never in Djokovic/Federer half at AO/USO 2008-2011.

Federer at least could've taken a break from Djokovic in RG by being almost always on the other side from Nadal/Djokovic in RG (one SF against Djokovic there).

Federer would've probably made five HC slam finals more had he not always had to play Djokovic in almost every HC SF 2008-2011, losing many tough semis both at AO and USO.

 

[MrMarble]

Djokovic on the other side had "the easiest possible" way to slam finals ever i.e. at RG almost always in Nadal's half and at HC slams (AO/USO) always in Peakerer's half 2008-11, two GOATs on the reepective surfaces.

That's another story... this study doesn't include matches before finals. Would be too much work since this is all-time list and includes over 560 finals in total...

Notes:
"majors" = Wembley Pro, French Pro, US Pro, slams, Olympics, WHCC, WCCC.
"5+" = 4+ for players who won their first major before 1930.

 

[Floki]

Useless irrelevant start that does not show anything meaningful at all.

 

[The Triumvirate]

Djokovic is almost guranteed to go negative in slam final win percentage. He's already past his peak and already at 50% :haha:

 

[JediFed]

Well, you know you're the GOAT when you can't play yourself.

 

[Mr.Black]

Sure, 5th edition of the same topic... nice thead, bro.

 

[BlackSilver]

Djokovic is in the middle of his carrer, irrelevant thread.

 

[Jaz]

Djokovic is in the middle of his carrer, irrelevant thread.

In all likelihood will start to get worse from next year onwards

 

[TigerTim]

Yes, Andy has had it extremely tough... perhaps only Lacoste and Von Cramm had it as tough, the latter which also had to take phone calls from Hitler during his matches! Ouch

:lol:

fair enough, Von Cramm wins out in this one

:secret: unless Murray has to chat to Alex Sammond