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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
Are you still upset the Wimbledon seeding formula? I saw many in this group criticizing the method or supporting it based on the player you support.

Please take 5-6 minutes to read this article and review my answers to these questions;

1. Understand how it works?
2. Whether there is a need to implement a surface-based seeding system?
3. Is the current system fair by all payers?

I would love to get your thoughts after reading this. Do you think I’m right or where did I go wrong?

Please share this with anyone or any group that still argues about this topic. Love to hear their feedback.

Thanks in advance!
 

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Well, you answered your own question with that link. I'm not sure what we are supposed to discuss.

You are a Rafa fan. It's bothering you. It's fine. There are a hundreds threads about this. Wimbledon operates differently like it or not.

Google it if you want to know more. It's all there on the net. The formula is very simple.

Is it fair? Well, life is not fair, lol.
Wimbledon can do whatever. It is OK. They will not change the formula. Brits are very stubborn when it comes to tradition.

I was surprised when they introduced that super TB in the fifth set. I'm against that too.
 

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Well, you answered your own question with that link. I'm not sure what we are supposed to discuss.

You are a Rafa fan. It's bothering you. It's fine. There are a hundreds threads about this. Wimbledon operates differently like it or not.

Google it if you want to know more. It's all there on the net. The formula is very simple.

Is it fair? Well, life is not fair, lol.
Wimbledon can do whatever. It is OK. They will not change the formula. Brits are very stubborn when it comes to tradition.

I was surprised when they introduced that super TB in the fifth set. I'm against that too.
It goes beyond being a Rafa fan.
WImb is full of archaic traditions most of which no longer make sense, and they just changed two of them--the 5th set TB and recently the ridiculous rule that kept the roof closed on a sunny day for the 2nd half of the Rafa/Djok semi.
It is no longer up to players as to whether the roof will be closed on a sunny day. How idiotic.

Many of the most knowledgable and respected pundits, ex-players, coaches etc. have come out against the Wimb seeding formula--Cahill, Magnus Norman, P Enroe among them, there are actually many more I saw this on another site--you can google that if you want more info, They feel the special seeding for Wimb is an archaic carry ov3er from the days when grass was way more different than it is now from HCs, and when there were more grass specialists.

This isn't just about Rafa at all.
 

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It goes beyond being a Rafa fan.
WImb is full of archaic traditions most of which no longer make sense, and they just changed two of them--the 5th set TB and recently the ridiculous rule that kept the roof closed on a sunny day for the 2nd half of the Rafa/Djok semi.
It is no longer up to players as to whether the roof will be closed on a sunny day. How idiotic.

Many of the most knowledgable and respected pundits, ex-players, coaches etc. have come out against the Wimb seeding formula--Cahill, Magnus Norman, P Enroe among them, there are actually many more I saw this on another site--you can google that if you want more info, They feel the special seeding for Wimb is an archaic carry ov3er from the days when grass was way more different than it is now from HCs, and when there were more grass specialists.

This isn't just about Rafa at all.
Hun, we are talking about the same thing :smooch:. Brits will not change. They still think they are British Empire. So, I was kinda joking. Nothing to do with Rafa btw.

Think who rules Canada, Australia etc. She is the head of the State. Well it's the Queen. God bless her but it's kinda silly. I just hope that Brits will not burn me alive :eek:h::rocker2::aplot::aplot::aplot:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well, you answered your own question with that link. I'm not sure what we are supposed to discuss.

You are a Rafa fan. It's bothering you. It's fine. There are a hundreds threads about this. Wimbledon operates differently like it or not.

Google it if you want to know more. It's all there on the net. The formula is very simple.

Is it fair? Well, life is not fair, lol.
Wimbledon can do whatever. It is OK. They will not change the formula. Brits are very stubborn when it comes to tradition.

I was surprised when they introduced that super TB in the fifth set. I'm against that too.
Thanks for the response Alex...

Yes, you are right I'm a Rafa fan, but I support the seeding formula and I think its fair in most cases. In the article I wrote why I think its fair and what I think its criticisms are...

As a amateur tennis writer, I value the opinions of diehard tennis fans like you to understand whether my thinking is correct and whether it can be improved further.

So would like to know whether my thinking process is correct with respect to the seeding formula. love to get your feedback on that.

Thanks again bud!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It goes beyond being a Rafa fan.
WImb is full of archaic traditions most of which no longer make sense, and they just changed two of them--the 5th set TB and recently the ridiculous rule that kept the roof closed on a sunny day for the 2nd half of the Rafa/Djok semi.
It is no longer up to players as to whether the roof will be closed on a sunny day. How idiotic.

Many of the most knowledgable and respected pundits, ex-players, coaches etc. have come out against the Wimb seeding formula--Cahill, Magnus Norman, P Enroe among them, there are actually many more I saw this on another site--you can google that if you want more info, They feel the special seeding for Wimb is an archaic carry ov3er from the days when grass was way more different than it is now from HCs, and when there were more grass specialists.

This isn't just about Rafa at all.
Thanks Roxi!

I'm a Rafa fan as well! I believe the formula is fair. Please read why I think its fair and let me know what you think about it. I think Rafa should be able to win this irrespective of the seeding.

Thanks again!
 

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Well, you answered your own question with that link. I'm not sure what we are supposed to discuss.

You are a Rafa fan. It's bothering you. It's fine. There are a hundreds threads about this. Wimbledon operates differently like it or not.

Google it if you want to know more. It's all there on the net. The formula is very simple.

Is it fair? Well, life is not fair, lol.
Wimbledon can do whatever. It is OK. They will not change the formula. Brits are very stubborn when it comes to tradition.

I was surprised when they introduced that super TB in the fifth set. I'm against that too.
True. But they changed to a 5th set TB.
Roof over CC.
Hawkeye.
They also changed that rule about the roof because of last year.

Nothing stays the same forever. If it´s fair then use it for the womens draw too.

The formula itself is very easy.

There were threads asking just after F.O. so we would know what Federer needed to be seeded 2nd. MTF
Federer knew. Nadal found out later i guess.

My take on this? They will change before the Big 3 retire.
 

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Thanks Roxi!

I'm a Rafa fan as well! I believe the formula is fair. Please read why I think its fair and let me know what you think about it. I think Rafa should be able to win this irrespective of the seeding.

Thanks again!
That's the right attitude!
Not "Brad Gilbert said this so it must be true".

And congrats on getting published in Medium.
I agree with your premise.
One suggestion, your screenshots look straight out of MS Excel. Maybe beautify them a bit :)
 
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Indikaj, we have seen so many different draws in the past. It's not just W. It doesn't matter at the end. The best man will win.

Let's look at this way. Goran Ivanisevic showed up with a WC 20 years ago, boom he won W.

Ivan Lendl, as good as he was, never managed to win SW17. It is tough out there. I can go on and on. Agassi did manage to do it and I didn't think he was that good on grass at the time, but he did it. Goran kinda choked. That was back in 1992 I think.

Wimbledon is still the Holy Grail for players.
 

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I think it’s pretty normal that Wimbledon compensates the short grass season with a specific seeding system, and the current rule is a huge improvement on the previous completely opaque system. That being said there’s a couple of things I don’t like :

1) By keeping the «*normal «* 32 seeds and reshuffling, they kind of miss the target. «*Grass specialist*» at the very top is hardly a thing these days, and it would be much more relevant, for instance, to give Lopez a seed than to bump up Fed snd KAndy. But I know players would never accept to lose their seed completely, so I guess this is better than nothing.

2) I don’t like that they break the one-year ranking logic. Getting a seeding boost for results from 2 years ago doesn’t feel right to me. I understand that they do it though, as given the small number of tournaments considered, the outcome might get too random otherwise. But I would still prefer if it included only one year.
 

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True. But they changed to a 5th set TB.
Roof over CC.
Hawkeye.
They also changed that rule about the roof because of last year.

Nothing stays the same forever. If it´s fair then use it for the womens draw too.

The formula itself is very easy.

There were threads asking just after F.O. so we would know what Federer needed to be seeded 2nd. MTF
Federer knew. Nadal found out later i guess.

My take on this? They will change before the Big 3 retire.
OK, I see your point. The roof was needed. However, look at the small details. Players have to be 'dressed' properly. White kits etc.
 

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It goes beyond being a Rafa fan.
WImb is full of archaic traditions most of which no longer make sense, and they just changed two of them--the 5th set TB and recently the ridiculous rule that kept the roof closed on a sunny day for the 2nd half of the Rafa/Djok semi.
It is no longer up to players as to whether the roof will be closed on a sunny day. How idiotic.

Many of the most knowledgable and respected pundits, ex-players, coaches etc. have come out against the Wimb seeding formula--Cahill, Magnus Norman, P Enroe among them, there are actually many more I saw this on another site--you can google that if you want more info, They feel the special seeding for Wimb is an archaic carry ov3er from the days when grass was way more different than it is now from HCs, and when there were more grass specialists.

This isn't just about Rafa at all.

The formula isn't archaic. It's less than 20 year sold. I wouldn't even call it old enough to be traditional.
 

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W seeding is not kept in for tradition but for rewarding fairly those who respect, like to play and who'd do better on a surface, nothing else. A mild protectionist rule like a country or any organization would make.

RG should do the same for clay. (under this criteria fair should have been Federer getting some kind punishment for having not played on the red dirt in a long time, RG specifically, his seeding demoted too)

And unfair rule is a rule not clear, discriminatory , applied badly / indiscriminately, etc (like Evans susp)
 

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Indikaj, we have seen so many different draws in the past. It's not just W. It doesn't matter at the end. The best man will win.

Let's look at this way. Goran Ivanisevic showed up with a WC 20 years ago, boom he won W.

...
When Goran won Wimbledon in 2001 they (ATP/ITF) have changed 16 seeds GS draw to 32, helping claycourters in Wimb'01, top players and probably Goran.

Next year Wimb'02 responded with its grass formula helping grasscouters and promoting grass tournaments.

Last year they (ATP/ITF) were planning to bring 16-seeds-draw back this season but gave up in the end.

Wimb will probably revoke its formula the moment they bring 16 seeds back.
 

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Sooner or later this disgusting seeding formula will change.Just wait.
 

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Indikaj, we have seen so many different draws in the past. It's not just W. It doesn't matter at the end. The best man will win.

Let's look at this way. Goran Ivanisevic showed up with a WC 20 years ago, boom he won W.

...
When Goran won Wimbledon in 2001 they (ATP/ITF) have changed 16 seeds GS draw to 32, helping claycourters in Wimb'01, top players and probably Goran.

Next year Wimb'02 responded with its grass formula.

Last year they (ATP/ITF) were planning to bring 16 seeds back this season but gave up in the end.

Wimb will probably revoke its formula if they bring 16 seeds back.
I believe you have it completely backwards. They didn’t put 32 seeds «*to help clay courters*» as Wimbledon could still have done whatever they wanted. The 32 seeds was on the contrary a compromise from ATP so that W would accept to stick to the rankings when determining who’s seeded. So no, coming back to 16 would not remove the incentive for the formula.
 

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1. Everybody understands how the formula works, because it's made public, and not that hard, mathematically.
2. It's not needed, at least not for any other surfaces. No one made any claim for it to be applied to clay or hard, anyway.
3. Fair is a vague term. It's not advantageous to Nadal, that's for sure, but only because his lopsided results on clay. Would the seeding be the same if grass had similar representation to clay or hard? Possibly, but who knows? In any case, since Wimbledon organizers have the necessary autonomy to impose the rule, it's acceptable.
 

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OK, I see your point. The roof was needed. However, look at the small details. Players have to be 'dressed' properly. White kits etc.
Tennis has changed since last century. Rackets, balls. Clothing, etc.
Each country has it´s traditions, right or wrong.
What was normal 100 years ago some aren´t acceptable today.

Wearing all white is getting boring. How many of us can tell which slam Federer, Nadal and Djokovic won with a specific shirt?

They put a roof over CC. Now that´s bold for Wimbledon. But of the 4 the roof was needed more there then the other 3.

But let´s put this subject away. Matches start in a few hours.
 

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It's really not that complicated when u consider there r more than twice the Masters for Clay & more than thrice that for HC that something needed to compensate for the original (grass) surface of tennis season. It may not b the perfect formula or system but just go to the "How is he ranked there" thread if u want to see how imperfect the ATP ranking system itself is.
 

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I believe you have it completely backwards. They didn’t put 32 seeds «*to help clay courters*» as Wimbledon could still have done whatever they wanted. The 32 seeds was on the contrary a compromise from ATP so that W would accept to stick to the rankings when determining who’s seeded. So no, coming back to 16 would not remove the incentive for the formula.
Yep, it was a compromise between Wimb and ATP, but claycourters certainly exerted a huge influence there in ATP's players council, as consequence, top claycourters stopped boycotting Wimb. as e.g. Corretja (no.11) and Costa (no.15) did in 2000, both withdrawing from tournament right after no.17-30 players like Phillipousses, Rafter, Krajicek, Rusedski etc. had been seeded instead.

You might also be right about Wimb retaining its formula even in the case of 16-seed draw, but considering the game has changed considerably and with expected pressure from the tour and tennis pundits, I'd expect them to abandon it soon thereafter, untill the time they feel the need for its reintroduction.
 
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