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Is Nadal mental GOAT?


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Discussion Starter #1
Let me make this clear right off the bat that I am trying to learn something with this thread, and not start a Nadal bashing thread. I am the first to admit that Nadal has super human fighting abilities and determination. In fact I have stated a few times of late at MTF that he is the mental GOAT.

But I read somewhere about the 2011 WTF match with Fed where he seemed to check out mentally, and I also thought of an earlier WTF match where he lost 4 and 1. I remember watching that match and thinking he wasn't trying either. Then there is the times when he suffered tough losses and left the game for lengthy periods due to supposed injuries.

I am now doubting his relentless will and mental strength. It seems to me he has those qualities on clay where things favor him anyway, but indoors for instance he checks out when things don't go his way. And he leaves the sport when things don't go his way too. Is this really the behavior of a mental GOAT?

I don't know what to think anymore. I still think he is very clutch but when things don't go his way he seems to not care as much. What do you think?

Discuss.
 

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I remember the match at WTF in 2011, he looked cluelss, even against Roger but he had be smashed by Novak so many times that year in a row that it shot his confidence. I remember people even went so far to say he might retire lol.
Well against Verdasco at Madrid 2012 he was up 5-2 in the last set and didn't win a game after that. Almagro in Barcelona this year he was up a break and still lost to a guy who hadn't beaten him before?
Indoors will always be the worst surface for him because his topspin isn't as strong as it is on Clay or anywhere else.
I think the problem is the same as Roger, they've dominated for so long that when things don't go their way, they don't know how to deal with it and they think "I'll find a way out of this".
They rely on their opponents choking so when a opponent doesn't choke, they don't know how to play i.e Rosol Wimbledon 2012, Tsonga Wimbledon 2011.
Rosol was bad because Nadal didn't try to change anything, he let Rosol just ball bash, no slice, no variety.
Roger against Stakhovsky was also annoying because all Sergiy was doing was Serve and Volley and Roger just kept blocking the return, giving easy put aways.
Nadal is still one of the strongest mental players but he peaked from Wimbledon 2008 to Us Open 2010. As a Roger fan, Australian 2009 was the best display of mental strength i've ever seen of any player by Nadal.
 

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His "spartan qualities" consist in his ability to run and put the ball back, letting the opponent choke. Of course it's easier to do that in preasure situations than come up with something creative.

If the opponent doesn't choke, he looks like a headless chicken and his lack of game becomes apparent.

He then develops a troma and plays shit for a long period of time, if he doesn't decide to step off the court for a few months.

In short: Dull's mental game is overrated. It's not bad, but highly linked to his style of play, and he endures losses extremely bad.
 

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He was mentally strong until RG 09.
 

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This idea that he is the 'mental GOAT' comes from the fact that he rarely makes mistakes, even during the high pressure moments of the match. But people forget to take into account that he's a defensive player who plays with a lot of margin of error in his shots (looping them out 5 metres over the net). The true mental GOAT is del potro, an all out attacking player who paints the lines even when he's break points down.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
This idea that he is the 'mental GOAT' comes from the fact that he rarely makes mistakes, even during the high pressure moments of the match. But people forget to take into account that he's a defensive player who plays with a lot of margin of error in his shots (looping them out 5 metres over the net). The true mental GOAT is del potro, an all out attacking player who paints the lines even when he's break points down.
If this is true then Sampras or Fed are the mental GOAT.
 

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I don't think he had any shot at winning those '07&'11 WTF matches, Federer was phenomenal and there wasn't much Nadal could do.

Anyway, no matter how good you are, if you play 700 matches (typically in front of huge crowds) there might be several dozens where you lose big leads and/or don't seem to care all that much.
 

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Nadal has won many, many matches solely because of mental toughness, and that's a credit to him. Looking at his entire career though I do think it's very, very strange the way he "disappears" after a shock loss and I don't entirely believe in the injury excuse. I mean, in 2012 after loss at Wimbledon he goes away for 7 months? Did he injure himself in the Rosol match because he wasn't the slightest bit injured in any match before that? The same for 2009 -he could easily have played at Wimbledon but was burned out. So I do think he is a bit mentally fragile whenever something does not go his way.
 

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Then I know mental GOAT = try his hardest to moonball to backhand until the opponent is worn down and delivers an error, especially when you are gifted with endless stamina.
Nadull is in fact mentally vulnerable. He always needs excuses for his losses. In previous years it was knee injuries, butt injuries ( probably because he picked too many times ), and then the courts are awful ( not slow and high bouncing enough, so that Brazilian claycourt can be faster than US Open ). Tio toni must be working hard on thinking of more excuses since the above ones are no longer accepted by media and tennis fans.

Only by playing a player who can bring real frustrations may a player's mental toughness be tested. All I know is that when dull plays Djoker, I've viewed countless times when dull hit a double fault on BP, which exposed his real mental strength, too much overrated.
 

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It seems to me he has those qualities on clay where things favor him anyway, but indoors for instance he checks out when things don't go his way. And he leaves the sport when things don't go his way too.
This. He doesn't want to give up mental edge and momentum to his rivals, so he 1. avoids to face them when he isn't in his zone, and 2. when he face them and lose, he wants everybody to see how he lost because he was far bellow 100%, tired and / or injured.

Like consistency and winning with a half of gas isn't big part of this sport.
 

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How can a person who demands extra rest time between points be considered Spartan?

The rules of tennis say that play should be continuous.
 
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