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Discussion Starter #1
People say all 3 surface play same. For sure clay sped up and hard/grass slowed down but there is still a significant difference in the surfaces.

Exhibit 1: Grassray

Exhibit 2: Clayray
 

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Yes ... because one person is how we determine what's true and not.
 

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Discussion Starter #4

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I wouldn't say so..

Murray, as a player that is heavily reliant on his movement and footwork is proof that there is a significant difference in how a player needs to move on grass/hard compared to clay in order to be successful on the surface.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There are many others. For example, Davydenko and Almagro.
but not to the degree of Murray. Neither won the biggest tournament on Grass/Clay.
 

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Alright ... maybe I am reading it wrong, so what are you saying? That surfaces are the same or not? You are asking the question, and I get what you are saying but it seems you are arguing against what you think you are arguing for.
 

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I wouldn't say so..

Murray, as a player that is heavily reliant on his movement and footwork is proof that there is a significant difference in how a player needs to move on grass/hard compared to clay in order to be successful on the surface.
This.

/thread
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Muzza just blew away a clay specialist with ease tonight, while still injured.
This Madrid clay must be playing like Queen's Club.
This match didn't happen on clay. It was played on unique glass like surface in Almagro's head
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Alright ... maybe I am reading it wrong, so what are you saying? That surfaces are the same or not? You are asking the question, and I get what you are saying but it seems you are arguing against what you think you are arguing for.
surfaces are not the same. I made it seem like I was singling out Murray but he was just the best (or most extreme) example.
 

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all it shows is that Murray is not strategically smart enough to do well on clay, he needs faster paced courts to help with his less than powerful strokes (compared to some of the guys out there) and frankly although he can pull of some great shots sometimes, I don't think he is crafty enough to outfox a lot of opponents on clay

it has no correlation with surface similarities, which obviously is the case to some degree in the last decade, but grass will never play like clay exactly no matter what you do (unless you have people run on it for hours to prep it before matches and it wears down)
 

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all it shows is that Murray is not strategically smart enough to do well on clay, he needs faster paced courts to help with his less than powerful strokes (compared to some of the guys out there) and frankly although he can pull of some great shots sometimes, I don't think he is crafty enough to outfox a lot of opponents on clay

it has no correlation with surface similarities, which obviously is the case to some degree in the last decade, but grass will never play like clay exactly no matter what you do (unless you have people run on it for hours to prep it before matches and it wears down)
Yep... because clay immediately springs to mind as a surface that requires intelligent play. Certainly explains Nadal's dominance.

Murray is one of the best tacticians on tour. He doesn't get results on clay because he is a defensive player with poor movement on the surface. Simple really :shrug:.
 

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Yep... because clay immediately springs to mind as a surface that requires intelligent play. Certainly explains Nadal's dominance.

Murray is one of the best tacticians on tour. He doesn't get results on clay because he is a defensive player with poor movement on the surface. Simple really :shrug:.
It actually is. Clay is by far the surface which allows creativity and tactical nuance to flourish. It's also the surface where questionable technique is exposed the most.
 

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Murray, can move on clay and well. He is not like Ferrer but his tactics and lack of confidence have hurt him multiple times in big matches. The biggest argument against surface homogenization, has been just the way Clay has been for the last 10 years. There has been so many tournaments, Roland Garros particularly just pure ball bashing and aggressiveness have been rewarded and not movement and thoughtful patience.
 

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Clay, grass and Hard courts obviously don't play the same, most people talking about the speed of the surfaces are generally the same(there is some truth into it). However speed isn't the only factor to play on a surface, movement, bounce, etc are also important. Moving on grass is obviously much different than moving on clay.
 

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The movement, the recovery movement, the sliding, the bounce and spin off the court, all of these distinguish each court. On clay you want to be more percentage, you want to work more the angles, drop shots. On a hard court you want to serve big and finish with a forehand. You want to attack more, you stay in further on the return, etc. On grass, you just attack, as the court really rewards you. But grass takes more to slice than top, and clay and hard courts are all different themselves. Then wind, sun, climate, there is so much at play.
 

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Murray just didn't good enough , we knew that all British and American suck on clay :devil: How about Stan ? He may win wimbly this year, you know :angel:
 

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A pushing fraud like Mugray being such a consistent top 4 player over the years is very much evidence in support of surface homogenization.
 

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There are many examples such as roddick on clay, berdych on clay compared to grass, ferrer.. Almagro,etc on grass.
 
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