Mens Tennis Forums banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Example: Aleksander Vukic has been doing well recently and had a great run to the final at Monterrey last week, notably beating Lopez in the 2nd round. However, #38 Mannarino got a wild card and easily dismantled Vukic in the final 6-1 6-3. The 80 points Mannarino earned for the win improved his ranking just 3 spots from #41 to #38. The 59 points Vukic earned for the final improved his ranking 48 spots from #244 to #196, but had he won, those additional 40 points would have vaulted him to #172, 72 spots! Furthermore, Vukic would have earned the $14,400 prize money (versus $8,480 for runner-up) which would be 29% of his $51,440 YTD earnings. On the other hand, the $14,400 to Mannarino is less than 7.8% of his YTD earnings ($181,102) and probably doesn't make a huge difference for him with lifetime career earnings over $7.25 million spanning 15.5 years (average yearly salary just under $470,000).

With the fate of ATP tournaments seemingly in the hands of covid-19, it has been speculated that top-ranked players will start requesting wild cards for challenger events to get in matches. One poster on MTF claimed they saw that at least 3 top 20 players have already requested WCs for an upcoming Challenger. Is it fair to lower-ranked players whose chances to go deep in a tournament will likely be snatched away by much wealthier highly-ranked players who don't need the money or the relatively nominal ranking points nearly as much?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,324 Posts
Fair? Probably not, but the question is, who is going to do something about it?

Don't challengers have a ranking limit on who is allowed to join the tournament?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
385 Posts
I do not think it's fair but challenger events is for those who is injured and needs match play on consecutive days to get back in form than if you would go to an ATP and get knocked out R1 and unable to get back in form asap. You can practice all you want but speed up a lot more during match play. Also if you are able to get into an 250's or 500's during that week, you are ineligible for challengers. For any Davis Cup weekend who is not nominated by DC team, I suppose players ought to be allowed to participate in Challengers but if he is able to get into a direct entry list for any main draw in 250 or 500's, he should be ineligible or limit the challengers for any top 50 to 2 Challengers events per year or until he is outside top 50.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Fair? Probably not, but the question is, who is going to do something about it?

Don't challengers have a ranking limit on who is allowed to join the tournament?
Yeah, here are the rules from the 2020 ATP rulebook. Stringent enough?
ETA: #4 seems questionable. 4 wildcards for ATP 125 and 110 and 3 wildcards for ATP 100? Even allowing 2 WCs in scenario #3 seems excessive to me. I understand the players need practice as @coolboarder stated above, but I think one WC maximum across the board in scenario 3 and 3/2/2 WCs in scenario 4 (rather than 4/4/3) would be plenty.

354618
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,324 Posts
Yeah, here are the rules from the 2020 ATP rulebook. Stringent enough?
ETA: #4 seems questionable. 4 wildcards for ATP 125 and 110 and 3 wildcards for ATP 100? Even allowing 2 WCs in scenario #3 seems excessive to me. I understand the players need practice as @coolboarder stated above, but I think one WC maximum across the board in scenario 3 and 3/2/2 WCs in scenario 4 (rather than 4/4/3) would be plenty.

View attachment 354618
Wow. I'd have expected the limit to be set outside the Top 50, at least.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
507 Posts
Of course it's fair, any challenger tournament would be lucky to have a top 50 player playing at their event. Maybe they are coming back from an injury, or maybe they are on a bad losing streak and need some more confidence, maybe they're playing at their home city. Either way they should be allowed to play ANY tournament if they wanted to.

A top 50 player has worked hard their whole lives to get to their position, and at this stage they have the luxury to choose their schedule and play any tournament they want. If anything it's even better for the challenger because it gets more attention & ticket sales that way.

And it's not like it happens every week where a top 50 player signs up for a challenger, so if this happens a couple of times a year - so what?

Plus, these "challengers" need a good "challenge" ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
I don't see any problem with it, as players may want to get into form using Challengers if they have been injured or not getting good results on the main tour. Plus, the Challenger level players that are in good form like Vukic should be happy to face a top 50 player to see where their game is at.

There are some players ranked inside the top 50 like Ramos-Vinolas, Sonego, Andujar, etc. that some challenger players would like to face in a favourable surface matchup.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,827 Posts
Wow. I'd have expected the limit to be set outside the Top 50, at least.
A bunch of players in the top 50 will play challengers on the 2nd week of grand slams and Miami/IW because they feel the need to keep playing/get matches in.

When you think most about it most tournaments are 32 players, and while there are multiple main level tournaments each week (outside of Masters and Grand Slams) they are usually no where close geographically. There are however sometime challengers that are. So if they somehow miss the cut-off they will go to a challenger instead. Top 50 is a bit too restrictive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I don't see any problem with it, as players may want to get into form using Challengers if they have been injured or not getting good results on the main tour. Plus, the Challenger level players that are in good form like Vukic should be happy to face a top 50 player to see where their game is at.
Good point. Yes, it is a good opportunity for Challenger level players to face top-ranked players. But I wonder how Vukic would answer the question "Would you rather win Monterrey or lose to Mannarino in the final?" I'm guessing he'd say win. Mannarino isn't particularly exciting of a player, frankly.

Guess I take it a bit personally since Vukic played tennis at the university I attended and I'm currently taking lessons there and everyone at the tennis center here supports him. Feeling a bit bitter he didn't win the title in Monterrey.

There are some players ranked inside the top 50 like Ramos-Vinolas, Sonego, Andujar, etc. that some challenger players would like to face in a favourable surface matchup.
True!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Of course it's fair, any challenger tournament would be lucky to have a top 50 player playing at their event. Maybe they are coming back from an injury, or maybe they are on a bad losing streak and need some more confidence, maybe they're playing at their home city. Either way they should be allowed to play ANY tournament if they wanted to.
Interesting perspective. So it seems you are saying that the current rules should be thrown out and any top 50 player including those ranked #1-10 should be able to enter any Challenger they want at any point?

A top 50 player has worked hard their whole lives to get to their position, and at this stage they have the luxury to choose their schedule and play any tournament they want. If anything it's even better for the challenger because it gets more attention & ticket sales that way.
Yeah, I understand the benefits that top 50 players get from playing these challenger tournaments. I'm not arguing about the fairness for those in the top 50. I'm saying it's not fair for those Challenger level players. Sure, top 50 player participation makes it more exciting and more lucrative for the tournaments, but not necessarily more fair to the lower-ranked players.


Plus, these "challengers" need a good "challenge" ;)
Can't argue with that I suppose! Or I could say that challenger level players already have lots of challenges on the tour as it is...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,026 Posts
Example: Aleksander Vukic has been doing well recently and had a great run to the final at Monterrey last week, notably beating Lopez in the 2nd round. However, #38 Mannarino got a wild card and easily dismantled Vukic in the final 6-1 6-3. The 80 points Mannarino earned for the win improved his ranking just 3 spots from #41 to #38. The 59 points Vukic earned for the final improved his ranking 48 spots from #244 to #196, but had he won, those additional 40 points would have vaulted him to #172, 72 spots! Furthermore, Vukic would have earned the $14,400 prize money (versus $8,480 for runner-up) which would be 29% of his $51,440 YTD earnings. On the other hand, the $14,400 to Mannarino is less than 7.8% of his YTD earnings ($181,102) and probably doesn't make a huge difference for him with lifetime career earnings over $7.25 million spanning 15.5 years (average yearly salary just under $470,000).

With the fate of ATP tournaments seemingly in the hands of covid-19, it has been speculated that top-ranked players will start requesting wild cards for challenger events to get in matches. One poster on MTF claimed they saw that at least 3 top 20 players have already requested WCs for an upcoming Challenger. Is it fair to lower-ranked players whose chances to go deep in a tournament will likely be snatched away by much wealthier highly-ranked players who don't need the money or the relatively nominal ranking points nearly as much?
I believe so . Always a chance they are playing a up and comer ( infact as it is a tournament level where up and comers start playing once they need more than 20 points too significantly move up the rankings I think this is most likely the case sometimes)

So it can come back and bite them .
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top