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Tomic the Tank engine.
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... than clay and hardcourts? I mean, if you are a serve bot, grass is, like, a KINGDOM for you. I really don't think any other surface is as advantageous to a particular playing style than grass is to servebots.
 

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... than clay and hardcourts? I mean, if you are a serve bot, grass is, like, a KINGDOM for you. I really don't think any other surface is as advantageous to a particular playing style than grass is to servebots.
Nope. Grass is not what it used to be. It still looks green though.

Not sure if we are talking about the same grass :).
 

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No, the serve is an advantage, but if you are tall, the bounce is a big problem. There is a reason why Isner or Raonic have not any great results there.

EDIT: And yeah, the speed is also slower, as mentioned above.
 

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... than clay and hardcourts? I mean, if you are a serve bot, grass is, like, a KINGDOM for you. I really don't think any other surface is as advantageous to a particular playing style than grass is to servebots.
:facepalm: :facepalm:

One of the greatest myths is that Grass is a great surface for "servebots". Look at Raonic's historical record:

142-59 (.706) on hard
39-26 (.600) on clay
14-11 (.560) on grass

probably his worst surface actually, grass also doesn't suit Isner or Karlovic.
 

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Seriously, I'm still amazed that some people here do not understand the W formula. How many threads have we had about this? It's all on the net. If you do not understand 'google Wimbledon formula' ...
 

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Seriously, I'm still amazed that some people here do not understand the W formula. How many threads have we had about this? It's all on the net. If you do not understand 'google Wimbledon formula' ...
 

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Yeah that must be the reason Karlovic, Isner and Raonic had the greatest results on grass.

Also Nadal, or Djokovic, or Murray, or Federer, aka the only men that won Wimbledon in the last 12 years, they are clear servebots.


 

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yeah, but then they changed the wimbledon courts and now it is more like a mmixture between traditional grass and clay there
 

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yeah, but then they changed the wimbledon courts and now it is more like a mmixture between traditional grass and clay there
Grass still has the fewest breaks of serve, even now - approx 17% of service games are breaks. Off the top of my head, clay is 21-30% (21% at altitude, down to 30% at seaside clay). Hard ranges from around 18% at Cincy to 23% at Miami. Indoor hard goes from around the same as grass if you have a quickish surface and quick ball (rare now), up to low20s at the slower events.


As above though, tall guys can struggle with the bounce as well as their footwork, and crappy returners like Isner are pretty much screwed also. In other words: the performance increase on serve is more than offset by the performance decrease on return and in the rally.

The next grass god will be an Oli Rochus sized servebot ........
 

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For sure grass is surface for servebots. Look at the number of aces on grass and compare with other surfaces. Look how technically limited were Wimbledon Champions like Ivanisevich and so on. Just look at the points on grass. 1 or 2 shot mostly. No aesthetics. Grass is the most boring and not watchable surfacr with a terrible ball control and traction.
 

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Grass still has the fewest breaks of serve, even now - approx 17% of service games are breaks. Off the top of my head, clay is 21-30% (21% at altitude, down to 30% at seaside clay). Hard ranges from around 18% at Cincy to 23% at Miami. Indoor hard goes from around the same as grass if you have a quickish surface and quick ball (rare now), up to low20s at the slower events.


As above though, tall guys can struggle with the bounce as well as their footwork, and crappy returners like Isner are pretty much screwed also. In other words: the performance increase on serve is more than offset by the performance decrease on return and in the rally.

The next grass god will be an Oli Rochus sized servebot ........
are you talking about wimbledon or grass in general?
 

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are you talking about wimbledon or grass in general?
Surprisingly, there's almost no difference between the various events. Newport and Eastbourne are a few % less, but that's ball-related for the former (Newport the only grass event that doesn't use Slazenger) and weather+samplesize for the latter.
 

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Grass and HCs are way too homogenised now. Clay is the surface they have least ruined, so no, clay's your answer. Although they're trying to ruin that too looking at the HC-like balls they used at this year's RG :worship:
 

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It's a myth that Wimbledon is a heaven for serve bots, on the contrary, they usually have their crappy movement and ROS exposed on the surface (guys like Isner, Karlovic etc. wouldn't do anything on 90s grass). Historically, the most dominant Wimbledon champions were all-court players (Sampras, Fed, Borg etc.), great shotmakers and athletes first.
 

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:facepalm: :facepalm:

One of the greatest myths is that Grass is a great surface for "servebots". Look at Raonic's historical record:

142-59 (.706) on hard
39-26 (.600) on clay
14-11 (.560) on grass

probably his worst surface actually, grass also doesn't suit Isner or Karlovic.
Look at Federer - why dont you?

He created a Kingdom out of Wimbledon
 

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Two problems that servebots usually face is that they are tall and have weaker movement. Grass don't help this much because of the low bouncing and the fact that they have less time to prepare their footwork to get into position to hit properly.

A guy like Isner or Karlovic are going to hold their serve 90% of the time anyways, regardless of the surface. So if anything, the grass is helping their opponents hold their serve more often than they usually would.

I still say that clay is the most advantageous surface for somebody that knows how to play on it vs. somebody that doesn't. How many times do we see Challenger level South American clay specialists beating ATP regulars just because they can slide, use better spin, etc.?
 

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Good for SVers I suppose up to a certain pt. These days bit rounded but the points go fast and favour those who can advance the net.
 

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