[Darth Vaderer]

It seems to me that Rogie’s GOAT claims are only going to deteriorate from here on as his rivals continue to pad their stats. And Rogie isn’t the consensus GOAT right now in many people’s eyes because of things like his losing head to head records with his Biggest rivals, winning many of his slams during a “weak era” and choking a bunch of huge slam moments.

And I don’t think people will ever view Rafa as the consensus GOAT because of arguments like cult skew, getting beat up a lot by Nole, etc.

So it seems to me that Nole has the only chance to one day be the consensus GOAT if he keeps padding his records and stats for a few more years to the point where even the most rabid of the Federesian horde can’t deny it. He has no holes in his game or record, winning head to head records against everyone, is clutch in big moments, etc.

what are your thoughts? If Nole keeps this up and holds pretty much every record, will anyone be able to deny that he is the consensus GOAT? Discuss.

 

[A_Skywalker]

Why Fed didn't retire last year when you had "inside info" ?

 

[bhdtl]

Novak will have the most slams, weeks at 1, year-end 1, masters, ATP Finals, and a winning H2H against his biggest rivals when it's all said and done. So, yes. Novak also beat the hardest competition by far.

 

[bhdtl]

Also, Novak is more accomplished on two of three surfaces than his two biggest rivals. Against Federer, he is more accomplished on hard court and clay; against Nadal, he is more accomplished on hard court and grass.

Yet, on grass, Novak owns Federer, and against Nadal, he beat him at RG and every clay masters..and nobody beat Nadal more times on clay than Novak.

 

[WawrinKINGZ]

Novak on clay courts Novak is very average. In clay court GOAT lists, he is probably around Soldering level, and far below JCF and Moya if we consider post 2000. Cannot be GOAT due to his clay record.

 

[bhdtl]

Novak on clay courts Novak is very average. In clay court GOAT lists, he is probably around Soldering level, and far below JCF and Moya if we consider post 2000. Cannot be GOAT due to his clay record.

That's not what the numbers say, but carry on posting your worthless opinions.

 

[Darth Vaderer]

Also, Novak is more accomplished on two of three surfaces than his two biggest rivals. Against Federer, he is more accomplished on hard court and clay; against Nadal, he is more accomplished on hard court and grass.

Yet, on grass, Novak owns Federer, and against Nadal, he beat him at RG and every clay masters..and nobody beat Nadal more times on clay than Novak.

Novak may have less Wimbledon titles than Rogie, but Nole is 3 for 3 in beating Rogie in Wimbledon finals... how can Rogie be grass goat with that record?

this thread is about overall goat though, not surface goats

 

[Why So Serious?]

For me he was the GOAT already after he won the NCYGS, a feat so great that it never happened in the Open era.

From then on he added a couple of more slams and won the Golden Masters twice, a feat no one comes even close to doing it once.

To have the most weeks at #1 is going to be broken in the first quarter of next year I believe so that is inevitable. Not to forget he will only add to that record the moment when he achieves it.

He will likely end this year as #1 so getting ahead of both rivals in that category and tying Pete is also very nice..

Numbers of slams is the only thing that's left standing when this season ends.. Djoker is on his way to complete the infamous #Project18 a week from now while also being undefeated for the year. And then it's only a question of time to overtake Rafa and 40-15er.

 

[Nic.]

Possibly. You can already make an easy argument that he's the best all around player ever. Having won every masters tournament twice now. His head to head record against his rivals, etc... When Novak first started, i remember him being often seen as someone who would struggle to win on grass due to his defensive game. Now five Winbledons later, the only possible weak spot is Clay but even there he's beaten Nadal more often than anyone else on the tour.

 

[WawrinKINGZ]

That's not what the numbers say, but carry on posting your worthless opinions.

He has won as many FO as JCF and Moya, but they won theirs in harder era. He won his FO when Nadal was injured so does not really hold up.

 

[El_Toro]

Also, Novak is more accomplished on two of three surfaces than his two biggest rivals. Against Federer, he is more accomplished on hard court and clay; against Nadal, he is more accomplished on hard court and grass.

Yet, on grass, Novak owns Federer, and against Nadal, he beat him at RG and every clay masters..and nobody beat Nadal more times on clay than Novak.

Correction, Sir. I can understand that old age has gotten to you. Novak is more accomplished on Wimbledon grass and AO hard. Not on USO hard....and his FO clay resume is worse than Roger's. Moreover, as @Bella&Mirka often reminds, Roger had two ATGs stopping him from the next generation. I argue that even though Rafa is just one year older than Novak, he is sort of sandwiched between the two ATGs. Novak has no one to stop him.

Also greatness (being subjective) can be argued to be about defining the game. This is Roger's undisputed territory. And Rafa helped him with all those early battles. Novak is far behind in terms of legacy.

No way will either of the three be a consensus Goat

 

[Darth Vaderer]

For me he was the GOAT already after he won the NCYGS, a feat so great that it never happened in the Open era.

From then on he added a couple of more slams and won the Golden Masters twice, a feat no one comes even close to doing it once.

To have the most weeks at #1 is going to be broken in the first quarter of next year I believe so that is inevitable. Not to forget he will only add to that record the moment when he achieves it.

He will likely end this year as #1 so getting ahead of both rivals in that category and tying Pete is also very nice..

Numbers of slams is the only thing that's left standing when this season ends.. Djoker is on his way to complete the infamous #Project18 a week from now while also being undefeated for the year. And then it's only a question of time to overtake Rafa and 40-15er.

If Nole ends the season undefeated (even in a shortened season) that would be quite a feather in his cap on his way to consensus GOAThood

 

[Johnny Groove]

Actually, yes. There would be no more debate if he has the most slams, #1 weeks, #1 YE, Masters, WTF, H2H vs all main rivals, I mean damn, what can you say

But we are not there yet. He still must win this title. And even if he does, RG is around the corner and Rafa is waiting in the arena, training for months. Very possible we can have a 20-20-18 situation come AO 2021, and then we see what's going on.

Djoker has the best chance to have the weeks at #1 record, that one is almost basically in the bag at this point. YE #1, this one may count as only 0.5 YE #1 due to half the year being cancelled but still more than Fedal but less than Pete. Needs 2021 YE #1 for 6.5 years for the Open Era record though Tilden and Gonzales have 7

WTF he should tie that record this year, only Fed himself last year saved it. All other records that matter he basically already has, including NCYGS above Fedal

Only real question is the slam record. 18 here is great, but as I said, Nadal is training hard for RG and he will probably get another one though who knows. USO is on a platter, AO is his fave slam, but RG is tough. So we can have 20-20-18 going into AO 21 even if Djoker has the #1 records

So there is still a lot of work to do but Djoker should focus on Carreno Busta first

 

[bhdtl]

He has won as many FO as JCF and Moya, but they won theirs in harder era. He won his FO when Nadal was injured so does not really hold up.

I've already seen a few of your posts to know that you can't be taken seriously and that your opinions are as good as worthless.

 

[WawrinKINGZ]

For me he was the GOAT already after he won the NCYGS, a feat so great that it never happened in the Open era.

From then on he added a couple of more slams and won the Golden Masters twice, a feat no one comes even close to doing it once.

To have the most weeks at #1 is going to be broken in the first quarter of next year I believe so that is inevitable. Not to forget he will only add to that record the moment when he achieves it.

He will likely end this year as #1 so getting ahead of both rivals in that category and tying Pete is also very nice..

Numbers of slams is the only thing that's left standing when this season ends.. Djoker is on his way to complete the infamous #Project18 a week from now while also being undefeated for the year. And then it's only a question of time to overtake Rafa and 40-15er.

More rubbish from someone that started following tennis in 2012.
Slam count cannot be used, simply because there really was only 2 slams back in the day. Borg never really played AO or US. He could have easily vultured them like Novak does.

 

[TheEndIsNear]

Yes, I agree with everything OP said. As long as he wins a few more slams and holds on to No. 1 for a while longer then this will happen. I'm fairly confident that he will surpass Fed in the weeks at No.1 record, but the slam record is still far from a certainty. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself here. If Djokovic wins this USO then I will already feel a lot more confident, and if he could somehow snatch RG as well then it's pretty much game over for Fedal.

 

[Darth Vaderer]

Correction, Sir. I can understand that old age has gotten to you. Novak is more accomplished on Wimbledon grass and AO hard. Not on USO hard....and his FO clay resume is worse than Roger's. Moreover, as @Bella&Mirka often reminds, Roger had two ATGs stopping him from the next generation. I argue that even though Rafa is just one year older than Novak, he is sort of sandwiched between the two ATGs. Novak has no one to stop him.

Also greatness (being subjective) can be argued to be about defining the game. This is Roger's undisputed territory. And Rafa helped him with all those early battles. Novak is far behind in terms of legacy.

No way will either of the three be a consensus Goat

No one ever used to talk about these qualitative murky factors for Rogie like “defining the game” until his big numerical records started coming under attack

 

[Nic.]

If Nole ends the season undefeated (even in a shortened season) that would be quite a feather in his cap on his way to consensus GOAThood

I don't think an undefeated season is in the cards until he wins the FO where he's a long shot against Nadal. I will give Novak this, he's going to be prepared when he goes in to it since he won't have skipped the US Hard Court season, but it's a ridiculous tall task to ask from him.

 

[bhdtl]

Correction, Sir. I can understand that old age has gotten to you. Novak is more accomplished on Wimbledon grass and AO hard. Not on USO hard....and his FO clay resume is worse than Roger's. Moreover, as @Bella&Mirka often reminds, Roger had two ATGs stopping him from the next generation. I argue that even though Rafa is just one year older than Novak, he is sort of sandwiched between the two ATGs. Novak has no one to stop him.

Also greatness (being subjective) can be argued to be about defining the game. This is Roger's undisputed territory. And Rafa helped him with all those early battles. Novak is far behind in terms of legacy.

No way will either of the three be a consensus Goat

Novak is way more accomplished on hard courts and grass. Not a little...but way more. Also, his FO resume is actually not worse than Federer's; it's better. Also, the numbers prove that Novak faced much harder competition than either of his two main rivals. But keep writing your boring essays that display how much ruins you're in.

 

[bhdtl]

No one ever used to talk about these qualitative murky factors for Rogie like “defining the game” until his big numerical records started coming under attack

That's because they have no actual argument left. They will just say Federer is GOAT because of popularity, as if that makes him better 😂