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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Was I the only one who could see back then that Federer was simply beeing outplayed by Nalbandian in that final? He had some minor injury problems, the same kind Nadal had in the wimbledon final this year, it really disappointed me that Nalbandians surreal performance was not fully aknowledged by most people in MTF (not only the Fed tards). Can we from today on not make excuses to why Federer was outplayed for most of the match and simply get down to the fact that if you are not at the top of your game and Nalbandian is at his absolute best stuff like that happens, even if you are at the top of your game and your name is Roger Federer you can still lose a match against Nalbandian.
 

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Re: I hope not to hear the injury excuses for Federers loss in tmc 2005 from now on

Fat chance, Federer only loses for a variety of reasons, and none of them are due to him being outplayed.
 

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Re: I hope not to hear the injury excuses for Federers loss in tmc 2005 from now on

It would be nice to agree with something like that.

However, we don't know for certain at what level each player performed today, and we can't really know that. We can say based on common sense that they were close to their best or not, but that's as accurate as it gets.

So there will always be those who will exploit this margin of error to argue that someone wasn't at their best etc. when they lost.

Nice idea though.

And I agree that Roger was outplayed, but was he at his best? Can't say for sure. Was he close to it? Maybe. Same goes for Nalbandian.
 

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Re: I hope not to hear the injury excuses for Federers loss in tmc 2005 from now on

Fat chance, Federer only loses for a variety of reasons, and none of them are due to him being outplayed.
hey isn't that from some sort of encyclopedia?

Encyclopedia Fedtardica?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: I hope not to hear the injury excuses for Federers loss in tmc 2005 from now on

Fat chance, Federer only loses for a variety of reasons, and none of them are due to him being outplayed.
Well, it is rare to see him beeing outplayed. I mean he lost to Canas and Djokovic this year because he didnt take his chanses and lost important points, the same goes for Safin in AO 2005, he was not outplayed in that match. Federer actually can only be outplayed when he plays Nadal on clay (I think he was outplayed most of the match in wimbledon this year too) and when he plays Nalbandian on almost any surface.

Federer is quite lucky Nalbandian doesnt play up to his potential in grand slams, he could lose some grand slams outside RG if Nalby becomes more consistent.
 

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federer played a different nalbandian that day. Nalbandian won 7-6 in a TB. So i really dont quite see it as being outplayed. Remember that federer also served for the match.

Federer did have some fitness problems as i recall but that is different. He had his chances and didnt take them

Today's nalbandian was better than that one, and today's federer was much better than the one that showed up at the TMC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: I hope not to hear the injury excuses for Federers loss in tmc 2005 from now on

It would be nice to agree with something like that.

However, we don't know for certain at what level each player performed today, and we can't really know that. We can say based on common sense that they were close to their best or not, but that's as accurate as it gets.

So there will always be those who will exploit this margin of error to argue that someone wasn't at their best etc. when they lost.

Nice idea though.

And I agree that Roger was outplayed, but was he at his best? Can't say for sure. Was he close to it? Maybe. Same goes for Nalbandian.
Federer was not at his best, but he was not far from it. He played some of the most fantastic tennis I have seen him play this year in the first 2 sets, but Federer didnt really serve at his best which is cruscial against Nalbandian and he did some UEs too many even if most of them were becase he was feeling the pressure to end points quickly against Nalbandian.

Lets just say that Federer was good enought today to defeat Nadal or any other player than Nalbandian in 2 straight sets on this surface.

Even if Federer had been at his best I think Nalby would have a chanse to beat Federer.
 

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Re: I hope not to hear the injury excuses for Federers loss in tmc 2005 from now on

Fat chance, Federer only loses for a variety of reasons, and none of them are due to him being outplayed.
Nice qualification of chance here. ;)
Fat Dave knows how to play him, has a game style that can weather the offense and produce about as good or better defense as Federer. I think here on, it is going to be a tossup who wins. His game style certainly is not one which will always give him the edge like Nadal's does.

I would be happy to see Fit Dave back in the mix, you just don't know what you are going to get with him and Safin.

Whoever watched the match today can say without such a bother about it that the player who imposed his game, won. Federer had chances but could not take them, not by bad luck or bad day. He seemed to get impatient and seemed to be distracted in the third, maybe about the break chance back at 4-5 in the 2nd.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
federer played a different nalbandian that day. Nalbandian won 7-6 in a TB. So i really dont quite see it as being outplayed. Remember that federer also served for the match.

Federer did have some fitness problems as i recall but that is different. He had his chances and didnt take them
Even in the 1st 2 sets Federer was having major problems against Nalbadian in the rallies but with his serve working and great mental strength he won 2 close tiebreaks. he lost the next 2 sets 2-6 1-6 and was losing 0-4 in the 3rd set when Nalbandian was playing superhuman tennis and Federer had some confidense and fitness problems. I have however to this day never seen anyone outplay Federer like Nalby was doing in these 2 and a half sets.

Today's nalbandian was better than that one, and today's federer was much better than the one that showed up at the TMC.
Agreed.
 

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Re: I hope not to hear the injury excuses for Federers loss in tmc 2005 from now on

Federer was not at his best, but he was not far from it. He played some of the most fantastic tennis I have seen him play this year in the first 2 sets, but Federer didnt really serve at his best which is cruscial against Nalbandian and he did some UEs too many even if most of them were becase he was feeling the pressure to end points quickly against Nalbandian.

Lets just say that Federer was good enought today to defeat Nadal or any other player than Nalbandian in 2 straight sets on this surface.

Even if Federer had been at his best I think Nalby would have a chanse to beat Federer.
I personally agree with what you're saying. Even if RFed wasn't at his best, he was close enough to it, it would seem.

I'm just trying to point out that there is a margin of error in these statements, and that people will likely use this margin to argue against otherwise valid points.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
When Nalbandian plays Federer it is all about confidence. Both play aggresive tennis trying to hit the lines, so whoever is leading is often high on confidence and is more relaxed he is the one who will during a rally try the backhand dtl and take initiatives. That is why sets often end 6-1 to Federer or the other way around, when they are on a roll they become very confident and the other player starts to doubt and becomes afraid. I could see that in Federer in the end of this match, he was afraid of the Nalby returns on his 2nd serve, he was afraid to go to the net, to hit difficult shots. Nalby on the other hand in the end of the match was strikin the ball with the most incredible angles and with alot of pace and precision, Federer was doing the same in the 1st set which was the best set I have seen Federer play in a very long time.
 

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Injury excuses are Defence 101 of supporting a tennis player. Doesn't matter, he proved that victory wasn't a fluke today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I know it is totally out of topic, but i really think that "if a player X is at his best" concept is pure crap.
It is, only if it is used in a biased way only trying to lift your favorite. But it is a fact that level of tennis that you play is like a roller coaster, it has ups and downs but how high can you go and how low can you go?

Nadal can go very high and never gows low, Nalbandian outside clay can go higher than Nadal but also most often much lower.

I think it is crap when fans say that Safin at his best would defeat anyone or that Federer at his best would defeat Nadal at his best on clay. That is the kind of biased bullshit which has misused the term "if a player X is at his best".
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok. What do you think of RG 2006 SF between these two?
That was much more clearly an injury, so much that the3rd set had not even ended and it was 1-1 in sets between them. Federer was fit enought in 2005 to play great tennis and come back in the 5th set from 0-4 to serving for the match at 6-5.
 

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The Fedtards who only have collecting trophys in their mind can only make excuses if their God is simply that big owned. Nothing new. Just say well done Nalbandian, no chance for Federer and it's all good.
 

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That was much more clearly an injury, so much that the3rd set had not even ended and it was 1-1 in sets between them. Federer was fit enought in 2005 to play great tennis and come back in the 5th set from 0-4 to serving for the match at 6-5.
Ok. I just mentioned because the Nalbo fans always mention that Federer got lucky there, if it wasn't for the abdominal injury Nalbanbian should have won.
 

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Sometimes it's only fair to acknowledge that someone was obviously hampered by injury, but in the case of this match, I have to agree with the thread starter. Nalbandian played brilliantly in TMC 2005; I didn't perceive injury to be a major factor in the win at the time.
 

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Ok. What do you think of RG 2006 SF between these two?
Are you really going to compare Federer's 05 TMC finals performance where injury was clearly a minor issue to a match where Nalbandian was thoroughly outplaying Roger and then a sudden shift occured, enough to cause Dave to retire and not even finish the match?
 
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