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Discussion Starter #1
I have a Medvedev picture nowadays because I think Federer's days are mostly over but I used to be a die hard Federer fan and I have always been surprised that here, fans of Federer hate Djokovic more than Nadal, some even loving Nadal.
For me, it is Nadal the arch-nemesis of Federer's career. He was the one to put Federer's status in question, he was the one with the antagonistic playstyle, suited to beat Federer, he was the one denying quite a few French open titles for Federer.

I hated Nadal for breaking Federer's spirit for years and not always on pure level - but on this match up advantage, being left-handed and able to easily find the one-handed backhand of Federer with his forehand.

Whereas Djokovic... Sure he denied Federer a lot of titles too. But he emerged mainly as Nadal's archenemesis. and it was revenge for us Federer fans. Nadal and his fans had to finally cope with an unfavored match up, which transformed in the same way in a psychological dominance. 2011 was so pleasing to watch, Nadal being beaten in rallies he used to dominate. I actually hated Federer for absolutely peaking at RG this year in the SF and protecting Nadal who could have been in great danger on in its home turf, had Djokovic been in the final.

Sure, Wimbledon 2019 hurt a lot, but it was Nadal who started the decline of Federer.
 

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I guess from a GOAT race point of view, Djokovic could be seen as a bigger threat than Nadal.
Also, Federer and Djokovic have never had that good of a relationship. Federer seems a bit closer to Nadal on a personal level.
 

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I never understood this either because Djokovic is the only reason Federer is still even in the GOAT race.

On countless occasions he stopped Nadal from winning majors when Federer was not able to do it.

Fedfans only like Nadal more because Federer likes him more. They are unable to think for themselves and let their hero do their thinking for them lol.
 

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It could be recency bias, with Djoko having beaten Roger in all their recent slam encounters. However, as you mentioned, even though Rafa tormented Roger in his prime years, it was also their rivalry that cemented Roger's greatness (and Rafa's). While Djokovic has faced Roger more in the last decade, his rivalry with Roger is nowhere near the level of Rafa vs Roger. Because of this early rivalry, Rafa and Roger have immense respect for one another, while we all know that Roger has utter contempt for the Djokovics (father, son, mother). And Roger's fans can sense this. That's why.
 
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Karma is a bitch,u know.Once fedcult were cheering for Nole,cause he became Rafa's nemesis and Rogie was dealing with him good.But little did they know what will it turn into
Now it is obv and inevitable that Rogie's records will be overcome and hate got stronger.That's why i can't blame them;)
 

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It's very simple, Nadal's behaviour makes him much more likeable than Djokovic.
And the claim that Djokovic actually helped Federer in the slam race against Nadal is completely wrong. Both lost 4 slam finals to Djokovic, but Federer lost in addition 7 semifinals (remember, they were almost always drawn in the same half), Nadal only one. Without Djokovic, Federer would very likely lead Nadal by 3 to 5 slams right now.
 

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If it makes a difference I have great admiration for big Novak.
 

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It could be recency bias, with Djoko having beaten Roger in all their recent slam encounters. However, as you mentioned, even though Rafa tormented Roger in his prime years, it was also their rivalry that cemented Roger's greatness (and Rafa's). While Djokovic has faced Roger more in the last decade, his rivalry with Roger is nowhere near the level of Rafa vs Roger. Because of this early rivalry, Rafa and Roger have immense respect for one another, while we all know that Roger has utter contempt for the Djokovics (father, son, mother). And Roger's fans can sense this. That's why.
Federer - Nadal: 40 matches
Federer - Novak: 50 matches
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It's very simple, Nadal's behaviour makes him much more likeable than Djokovic.
It is very hard for me to understand how Nadal's behaviour is that much likeable. He can be a sore loser, he has tricks like making Medvedev wait before every serve in USO19, he grunts a lot, the time he takes before serving, he shows muscles every time, he acts like a bully on court, the way he walks after a point, etc.
 

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If you're looking at the average Federer fan pre-2015 it's pretty clear why Nadal was more disliked, and so it's also pretty clear why it has evened out by now (or even more than that).

I couldn't stand either of them outdoing Federer, but if in the end that is the case now that no one else has been stepping in for years, then Federer only has himself to blame, in the past 15 years he has wasted more than enough chances against both of them to protect or extend his records. I won't like or dislike any player more simply based on their achievements in relation to another player's.

Off court it seems Nadal is clearly the more likeable character but to me that doesn't really influence whether I like or dislike players as we usually only see a fraction of that. We see a much fuller picture of a player's game and on-court behaviour, and when it comes to that, both of them have some utterly detestable characteristics that have been talked about at length here and elsewhere, so a choice between these two is not exactly a pleasant one.
 

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Federer - Nadal: 40 matches
Federer - Novak: 50 matches
What's your point? I made it clear that quality, not quantity, of the encounters influence people's perception of the game. Which match do people remember more - WB '08 or '14? Even though WB '19 will be talked about for some time, it will be for 40-15 and nothing more. People love contrasting game styles and great rallies, the kind you saw in WB '07, '08, AO '09, '17...... The atmosphere before the AO 17 dwarfs that before any finals involving Djokovic. This is what pricks Djoko and his fans.
 

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It could be recency bias, with Djoko having beaten Roger in all their recent slam encounters. However, as you mentioned, even though Rafa tormented Roger in his prime years, it was also their rivalry that cemented Roger's greatness (and Rafa's). While Djokovic has faced Roger more in the last decade, his rivalry with Roger is nowhere near the level of Rafa vs Roger. Because of this early rivalry, Rafa and Roger have immense respect for one another, while we all know that Roger has utter contempt for the Djokovics (father, son, mother). And Roger's fans can sense this. That's why.
Nadal emerged in 2005, two years before Djokovic.

But young Nadal was a real threat (in the majors) at RG only, whereas Djokovic was the first to beat Federer outside the clay (AO'08) and to play close HC final (USO'07) beforehand, then Nadal went on to win Wimb'08.

Till 2012 Djokovic and Federer played 8 HC slam rubbers, each winning 4, Federer and Nadal just one(AO'09), despite Nadal's two more years at the top.

So, Federer-Djokovic rivarly, as you said, was nowhere near the level of Fedal simply because of lopsided HC draws, so that after their USO'07 final Fedovic could not even theoretically play another HC final for eight consecutive slams till 2012 (being always placed in the same half, opposite to Nadal), playing six HC semifinals instead, whereas Fedal played many finals at RG and Wimb beforehand (natural surfaces).

If they also always had placed young Djokovic in Federer's half at RG (instead of Nadal's) young Djokovic would've also played a lot of RG semis vs Federer, and consequently would've amassed a lot more encounters vs Federer than young Nadal.
 

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I don't really understand the concept of hating sportspeople, to begin with. To me, hate is an intense and strong feeling that needs some heavy personal involvement to develop. These guys are just athletes, I don't know any of them personally, and I only see them playing tennis. They didn't rob my house. They didn't wreck my career or killed my dog. Sure, it is not exactly a pleasant feeling when the player you cheer for gets beaten by the player you don't like. But to hate player A because he beats player B whom I happen to like so much so that I declare myself a hater (maybe even a proud one at that, as many members seem to do here)? No, that's incomprehensible for me. At the very least, it contradicts the very spirit of tennis, and also I'm sure Federer wouldn't want anyone to hate Nadal or Djokovic on his account and vice versa.
 

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Personally, I don't hate either of them. I wish them lots of happiness in their personal lives.

As regards the tennis, Nadal is a one-off freak. His style of play (extreme grip, topspin) and tennis education (Toni the lone mastermind) will probably never be emulated. As such, he doesn't represent any threat to Federer's identity.

But Djokovic plays like the dream of every crude junior tennis coach who gets a batch of 10 or 20 kids and grinds down their individuality and makes them all play exactly the same way. He is what Federer would look like if Federer had no imagination and had been brutalised by the Swiss tennis system.

When Federer succeeded, he made it possible to believe that creativity and imagination were compatible with success. With Federer, the possibilities of tennis expand. Whereas with Djokovic, the supremacy of ruthlessly efficient tennis is re-established.
 

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I never understood this either because Djokovic is the only reason Federer is still even in the GOAT race.

On countless occasions he stopped Nadal from winning majors when Federer was not able to do it.

Fedfans only like Nadal more because Federer likes him more. They are unable to think for themselves and let their hero do their thinking for them lol.
I don't think your math is on point. There are more lost GS matches against Djokovic that were on Fed's racquet, than lost GS matches against Djokovic that were on Nadal's racquet. And even overall Djokovic has denied Fed more often than Nadal at Grand Slams.
 

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I don't really understand the concept of hating sportspeople, to begin with. To me, hate is an intense and strong feeling that needs some heavy personal involvement to develop. These guys are just athletes, I don't know any of them personally, and I only see them playing tennis. They didn't rob my house. They didn't wreck my career or killed my dog. Sure, it is not exactly a pleasant feeling when the player you cheer for gets beaten by the player you don't like. But to hate player A because he beats player B whom I happen to like so much so that I declare myself a hater (maybe even a proud one at that, as many members seem to do here)? No, that's incomprehensible for me. At the very least, it contradicts the very spirit of tennis, and also I'm sure Federer wouldn't want anyone to hate Nadal or Djokovic on his account and vice versa.
Replace hate with personal dislike, then we have a much more reasonable argument. When most people say hate, they actually mean dislike.
 

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Of course they do. Fedal was only tennis greatest rivalry before Nole showed up. After Novak became number 01, he became both Federer and Nadal’s biggest threat And biggest rivalry. You hate the most those you feel most threatened about.
 

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It's a common mistake to perceive Nadal as the player who stopped Federer from winning more grands slams. It's obviously Djokovic not Nadal who did it. Let's count the number of grand slams at which Nadal/ Djokovic prevented Federer from winning them (this is a simulation of course but I think it's reasonable):

Nadal: RG 2005 (SF but Puerta in F), RG 2006 (F), RG 2007 (F), RG 2008 (F, but Djokovic in F instead), RG 2011 (F), WB 2008 (F), AO 2009 (F), AO 2014 (SF but Wawrinka in F) = 8 slams (1 uncertain: RG 2008)

Djokovic: WB 2014 (F), WB 2015 (F), WB 2019 (F), USO 2011 (SF, Nadal in F but with good chances for Fed unlike in 2010), USO 2015 (F), AO 2008 (SF but Tsonga in the F), AO 2011 (SF but Murray in the F), AO 2016 (SF but Murray in the F), AO 2019 (SF, Thiem in the F) = 9 slams (2 uncertain: USO 2011, AO 2019)

Additional factor 1: Federer beat Nadal in 3 slam finals (especially in AO 2017 which sort of settled the score with Rafa), he beat Djokovic only once in USO 2007 - long time ago
Additional factor 2: Federer lost to Djokovic 3 time from two match points up (USO 2010, USO 2011, WM 2019)
Additional factor 3: Djokovic fans are much more aggressive towards Federer as the player (especially as of late) trying to diminish his accomplishments all the time

To sum it up: my thinking is exactly opposite to OP's - I am really surprised that so many Fed fans prefer Novak over Rafa.
 
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