Mens Tennis Forums banner

21 - 40 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
Up until 2019 Wimbledon final choke, his legacy was better as he got extra 2 slam wins against (one outside grass first time ever) Nadal and he dominated the rivalry since then. But after the way he lost Wimbledon final against Djokovic it is hard to say.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
This is tricky. Numerically he has added to his legacy but the problem is for most of his career he has been third fiddle to Nadal and Djokovic which for many will be a huge question mark. Had he retired in 2012 then his struggles against Nadal and Djokovic would have been put down to his decline due to age. In 2012 he was on 17 Majors and although he would be 3rd on the list i think he might have had a stronger GOAT case.

While his fans will claim Nadal and Djokovic have never beaten peak Federer (that may or may not be true) as time passes and people look back in say 40 years time they will see Federer was 3rd of 3 legends for most of his career.

This is a good thread and raises the wider sporting question of when a legend should retire. For instance Borg was unquestionably best of his era. What we will never know is whether in fact McEnroe had his number and would have beat down on him time after time.

As a Nadal fan all i know for sure is had Federer retired in 2012 to protect his legacy millions would have missed out on thr glorious tennis he still can produce albeit a lot rarer than in his heyday.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. How was he third fiddle for "most" of his career? The man turned 31 in 2012.Nobody expected him to dominate the game in his 30s considering he was playing with fellow all time greats in their 20s. He was still playing post 2012 because he loves the game and he happened to add some grand slams as well as some other titles to his name. You cant blame the guy for not winning all the time late in his 30s lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Up until 2019 Wimbledon final choke, his legacy was better as he got extra 2 slam wins against (one outside grass first time ever) Nadal and he dominated the rivalry since then. But after the way he lost Wimbledon final against Djokovic it is hard to say.
tbf I didnt expect Federer to defeat Djokovic at W last year. When I saw the draw before the start of the tournament I thought that it was going to be much to beat Nadal and Djokovic back to back. I knew he could take one of them,but I thought that both will be way too much at his age. Was really surprised that he pushed Djokovic so much and so was Djokovic probably considering he had a cakewalk draw and was fresh for the final. But yeah in the end he had those match points and he had to capitalize on them.That one will probably hurt him and his legacy forever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
Explai
Sorry, but that's nonsense. How was he third fiddle for "most" of his career? The man turned 31 in 2012.Nobody expected him to dominate the game in his 30s considering he was playing with fellow all time greats in their 20s. He was still playing post 2012 because he loves the game and he happened to add some grand slams as well as some other titles to his name. You cant blame the guy for not winning all the time late in his 30s lol
Explain 2008-2012 then.

Here is my calculations that period.

Nadal 8 Majors YE1 2 times

Djokovic 5 Majors YE1 2 times

Federer 4 Majors YE1 1 time

That period all 3 were at their peak at same time. Dont say federer wasnt when right now Nadal is 33 and Djokovic is 32 and they hold all the majors.

The above is clear evidence Federer is 3rd and Nadal is best. Undeniable fact.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Explai

Explain 2008-2012 then.

Here is my calculations that period.

Nadal 8 Majors YE1 2 times

Djokovic 5 Majors YE1 2 times

Federer 4 Majors YE1 1 time

That period all 3 were at their peak at same time. Dont say federer wasnt when right now Nadal is 33 and Djokovic is 32 and they hold all the majors.

The above is clear evidence Federer is 3rd and Nadal is best. Undeniable fact.
Well Federer obviously wasn't at his peak was he haha And when you look at those stats for 4 years you posted ,it certainly does look a bit bad for Federer ,but not really when you consider that both Nadal and Djokovic accumulated those in 2010 and 2011 respectively.You add one more year in 2007 there and you have something like Nadal 9 Federer 8 and Djokovic 5 and it completely changes the narrative.

But seriously though ever since i've joined this forum I see this need in people to break Federer's career in some parts or something and it isn't done for any other player except Federer.The guy's career spans from 1998 and it should be viewed as a whole just like any other player.He happened to be older than both Djokovic and Nadal and their physical and mental peaks just didnt happen at the same time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
Well Federer obviously wasn't at his peak was he haha And when you look at those stats for 4 years you posted ,it certainly does look a bit bad for Federer ,but not really when you consider that both Nadal and Djokovic accumulated those in 2010 and 2011 respectively.You add one more year in 2007 there and you have something like Nadal 9 Federer 8 and Djokovic 5 and it completely changes the narrative.

But seriously though ever since i've joined this forum I see this need in people to break Federer's career in some parts or something and it isn't done for any other player except Federer.The guy's career spans from 1998 and it should be viewed as a whole just like any other player.He happened to be older than both Djokovic and Nadal and their physical and mental peaks just didnt happen at the same time.
Hang on. Federer was 26/27 in 2008. How can he be past his peak. Nadal was 21 and Djokovic 20. Federer should have been dominating them but he wasnt.

Federer fans have brought this on themselves. Prematurely declaring him GOAT before he even passed Sampras 14 Majors, obviously by Federer fan logic using same arguments Federer is now 3rd of his era. Clearly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
Well Federer obviously wasn't at his peak was he haha And when you look at those stats for 4 years you posted ,it certainly does look a bit bad for Federer ,but not really when you consider that both Nadal and Djokovic accumulated those in 2010 and 2011 respectively.You add one more year in 2007 there and you have something like Nadal 9 Federer 8 and Djokovic 5 and it completely changes the narrative.

But seriously though ever since i've joined this forum I see this need in people to break Federer's career in some parts or something and it isn't done for any other player except Federer.The guy's career spans from 1998 and it should be viewed as a whole just like any other player.He happened to be older than both Djokovic and Nadal and their physical and mental peaks just didnt happen at the same time.
The best argument for Federer to put him 2nd behind Nadal is that unlike Djokovic he never had luxury of 2 Majors on his best surface. If he had , like Nadal, he would be well over 25 Majors not stuck on 17 like Djokovic is.

I would have had Federer 2nd but he is 0-3 v Djokovic in wimbledon finals which probably drops him to 3rd although those defeats occurred when he was older. But thats the point of the thread did he go too long.

You could argue djokovic is below Sampras as had Sampras had 2 Majors on grass he would be beyond 17 majors as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
73 Posts
I think it's the same. He may not be dominating the field as he once did, but he was lucky to have started earlier than the other two. The majority of his GS titles came before the two fully matured, and now he can always use his old age as an excuse for any loss to them. He could always say that he could have faired better against them had he been the same age as them. So overall, I consider his legacy the same between now and 2017. His wins at the Aussie Open and French Open were mostly due to the absence of in-form Nadal and Djokovic. We all know what happened when they came back healthy and strong. The same old story that started almost 10 years earlier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Hang on. Federer was 26/27 in 2008. How can he be past his peak. Nadal was 21 and Djokovic 20. Federer should have been dominating them but he wasnt.

Federer fans have brought this on themselves. Prematurely declaring him GOAT before he even passed Sampras 14 Majors, obviously by Federer fan logic using same arguments Federer is now 3rd of his era. Clearly.
As I already you said you take it like you did 2008-2012 and it looks like Nadal/Djoko completely dominated Federer in those years in terms of GS victories when in fact the (Djokovic especially) accumulated his titles in 2011 (3) and in 2012 (1) of those 5 you mentioned. Federer was already 31 in 2012.A year makes a tremendaous difference with Djokovic obviously and as well with Federer when you add 2007 so you cant just take the time period you want to prove your point.

I have no problems with Djoko/Nadal surpassing Federer. If it happens it will be totaly deserved, but you know it's not like you have to discredit Federer in the process of surpassing him. The guy was and is a beast. Could he have won more. Yeah sure, but it's not like i'm blaming him not winning in '13,'14 or' '15.He was 32,33 and 34 playing against Djokovic and Nadal in their mid 20's.Everything he does in these past few years is just a bonus.

Well obviously Federer is third in this "era". Considering you take 2010's as that era, Federer never was supposed to dominate those years. The guy was in his 30s for most of the decade with 2 all time greats entering their prime.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,057 Posts
How has it changed in the last three years

Since start of 2017

Majors won

Djokovic - 5
Nadal - 5
Federer - 3

He added Majors but the gap has been reduced by the other 2 members of the 'Big 3'
What do you think, OP? Now that quite a few posters have already posted, why don't you post what you think?

Is there a change or no change in Federer's legacy? Or it doesn't matter?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Explai

Explain 2008-2012 then.

Here is my calculations that period.

Nadal 8 Majors YE1 2 times

Djokovic 5 Majors YE1 2 times

Federer 4 Majors YE1 1 time

That period all 3 were at their peak at same time. Dont say federer wasnt when right now Nadal is 33 and Djokovic is 32 and they hold all the majors.

The above is clear evidence Federer is 3rd and Nadal is best. Undeniable fact.
Roger won 5 slams in that period ..
2008 USO, 2009 FO + W , 2010 AO + 2012 W
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,169 Posts
Tbh he did well with some tournaments and he f-up some of them.In my opinion he had to go deeper at US Open in at least one of 2017,18 or 19 editions,but he didn't seem well prepared for any of them and ofc he f-up W18 and 19.

Apart from those I cant really complain much.He lost to Stefanos last year at the AO,but Djokovic was probably too strong at that tournament.Last years FO was great for him.He even played great in that semifinal and probably could've won a set if not for the wind.But still great considering he didn't play clay event for 4 years.

So yeah,just really surprised that he didn't manage to have a good run at the USO in this period considering he was playing great at IW and Miami and the surface is pretty similar there as in NY.I have a feeling that he gives everything into his W campaign and after that he is pretty much done for the year.

The only real thing missing for Federer in these late years of his career is a victory over Djokovic at a GS.He managed to succesfully fight the ghosts with his victory over Nadal at AO,but imo he has to beat Djokovic somehow in order to really protect his legacy.I'm not going around saying that he should beat him consistenly at this day and age ,but a win against the Djoker at this years Wimbledon is something Federer has to do.He has the game,we've seen that last year.This time around he needs to back it up mentally at the most important moments.
Fatigue is a big deal. By the time of USO his body is toast.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,169 Posts
Federer always have disadvantage being the older one on tour. He started the trend of dominating slams and 1 or 2 players will imitate him. Same things Federer did to Sampras. If u put Djokovic and Nadal in same situation with ATG youngster chasing they will be broken as well. In sports being target board isn't fortunate. Same like Liverpool going to break against Man City points tally.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,471 Posts
Explai

Explain 2008-2012 then.

Here is my calculations that period.

Nadal 8 Majors YE1 2 times

Djokovic 5 Majors YE1 2 times

Federer 4 Majors YE1 1 time

That period all 3 were at their peak at same time. Dont say federer wasnt when right now Nadal is 33 and Djokovic is 32 and they hold all the majors.

The above is clear evidence Federer is 3rd and Nadal is best. Undeniable fact.
Novak was in his peak form for the better part of 2009 and 2010 (both technically and physically) as Nadal in 2015 & '16.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,139 Posts
Federer always have disadvantage being the older one on tour. He started the trend of dominating slams and 1 or 2 players will imitate him. Same things Federer did to Sampras. If u put Djokovic and Nadal in same situation with ATG youngster chasing they will be broken as well. In sports being target board isn't fortunate. Same like Liverpool going to break against Man City points tally.
Stopped reading at that point. Benjamin Federer Button LoL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,814 Posts
If you compare the three overall he looked better at the end of 2016, since Djokovic was struggling and Nadal had gone two years and a half without a slam, not even winning Roland Garros in that period. But it looks better now for him that it looked before the AO 2014 final for instance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Federer was the first person to win 15 slams, 16 slams, 17 slams, 18 slams, 19 slams, and 20 slams. There will never be another first in those categories. We’ll see if someone get to #21 first
 
21 - 40 of 44 Posts
Top