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So after 2011 that Novak beat Rafa in all surfaces + the hard loss for him in the AO 12 F , somehow Rafa manage to find a way to beat Novak again, even on HC.

What do you think is the main reason for it?
As I remember it, Novak lost a grandpa during Monte Carlo so he was never in it and RG was a
So after 2011 that Novak beat Rafa in all surfaces + the hard loss for him in the AO 12 F , somehow Rafa manage to find a way to beat Novak again, even on HC.

What do you think is the main reason for it?
Novak lost his grandpa in 2012 during Monte Carlo which showed a lot and then RG was really rainy. 2013 was somewhat better until he touched net in RG and then looked to carry it the rest of the year. He really lost many winnable matches and lost two slam finals to Murray. Nadal had nothing to do with it.
 

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As I remember it, Novak lost a grandpa during Monte Carlo so he was never in it and RG was a

Novak lost his grandpa in 2012 during Monte Carlo which showed a lot and then RG was really rainy. 2013 was somewhat better until he touched net in RG and then looked to carry it the rest of the year. He really lost many winnable matches and lost two slam finals to Murray. Nadal had nothing to do with it.
Nonsense. RG being rainy in 2012 was the only reason Djokovic won a set, otherwise it would have been a straight-set beatdown from Nadal... and Djokovic was quite lucky to get to a 5th set in 2013, Nadal was serving for the match at the 4th. And the "grandpa" excuse for his loss at Monte Carlo is laughable. Nadal's level is simply higher than Djokovic on all outdoor surfaces, when his forehand down the line is clicking there's nothing Djokovic can do. It was only when Nadal declined in 2014 that Djokovic started having the upper hand; Djokovic had nothing to do with it.
 

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Nonsense. RG being rainy in 2012 was the only reason Djokovic won a set, otherwise it would have been a straight-set beatdown from Nadal... and Djokovic was quite lucky to get to a 5th set in 2013, Nadal was serving for the match at the 4th. And the "grandpa" excuse for his loss at Monte Carlo is laughable. Nadal's level is simply higher than Djokovic on all outdoor surfaces, when his forehand down the line is clicking there's nothing Djokovic can do. It was only when Nadal declined in 2014 that Djokovic started having the upper hand; Djokovic had nothing to do with it.
Which of course explains why, since 2013, the claybot has been unable to beat the Serb off Clay. Obviously, thanks to covid19 some of us have way too much time on our hands.
 

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Nadal's level is simply higher than Djokovic on all outdoor surfaces, when his forehand down the line is clicking there's nothing Djokovic can do.
It's a shame that Nadal's forehand down the line hasn't 'clicked' against Djokovic in about seven years! Such terrible misfortune. It's almost as if Djokovic has repeatedly demonstrated that he's the better player, and has completely owned Nadal for the best part of a decade.
 

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Nonsense. RG being rainy in 2012 was the only reason Djokovic won a set, otherwise it would have been a straight-set beatdown from Nadal... and Djokovic was quite lucky to get to a 5th set in 2013, Nadal was serving for the match at the 4th. And the "grandpa" excuse for his loss at Monte Carlo is laughable. Nadal's level is simply higher than Djokovic on all outdoor surfaces, when his forehand down the line is clicking there's nothing Djokovic can do. It was only when Nadal declined in 2014 that Djokovic started having the upper hand; Djokovic had nothing to do with it.
The 'king of clay' shouldn't need the perfect, sunny conditions to win. He should win even with a little rain and cold, no? Also, when someone has 1 year of relative success off of clay (a 2-2 record) and 9 years of pain and suffering against an opponent, where even breaking his opponent's serve one a hard court is almost an impossible task, it is time to accept that Djokovic is Nadal's daddy and that 2013 was an anomaly. If Nadal does not have the talent or ability to overcome this problem, then that is on him. Can you imagine LeBron James, Ronaldo, or Messi crying, "I declined at 26 and cannot win anymore!" You make Nadal look so weak and hopeless.
 

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It's a shame that Nadal's forehand down the line hasn't 'clicked' against Djokovic in about seven years! Such terrible misfortune. It's almost as if Djokovic has repeatedly demonstrated that he's the better player, and has completely owned Nadal for the best part of a decade.
Nadal's forehand failed in the following years: 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015-2016, 2017-2020.
Nadal's forehand clicked in the following years: 2013 (explaining the 2-2 record).

It's almost like they are saying Nadal got lucky that one year, which is why he could never replicate it again.
 

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Nonsense. RG being rainy in 2012 was the only reason Djokovic won a set, otherwise it would have been a straight-set beatdown from Nadal... and Djokovic was quite lucky to get to a 5th set in 2013, Nadal was serving for the match at the 4th. And the "grandpa" excuse for his loss at Monte Carlo is laughable. Nadal's level is simply higher than Djokovic on all outdoor surfaces, when his forehand down the line is clicking there's nothing Djokovic can do. It was only when Nadal declined in 2014 that Djokovic started having the upper hand; Djokovic had nothing to do with it.
Monte Carlo 2013 was both of them at full force and Nole swept him up like a rag doll.
 

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The 'king of clay' shouldn't need the perfect, sunny conditions to win. He should win even with a little rain and cold, no?
Yes of course. I never said Nadal needs perfect conditions, I wonder how you could interpret what I wrote as that. I was just replying to the other poster who was using rainy conditions as an excuse for Djokovic loss, when in fact it was those conditions that helped Djokovic keep the match closer... it doesn't make sense. But Nadal won anyway.

Also, when someone has 1 year of relative success off of clay (a 2-2 record) and 9 years of pain and suffering against an opponent, where even breaking his opponent's serve one a hard court is almost an impossible task, it is time to accept that Djokovic is Nadal's daddy and that 2013 was an anomaly.
It is plain to see that Nadal's level and confidence went down dramatically after 2014. It is entirely normal for a younger opponent who peaked later to start gaining the upper hand, it has nothing to do with "anomalies". Not sure what you are not seeing here. You act as if only the last 5 years of their rivalry counts... and forget the reason why it happened that way. By the same token I could claim that Nadal owns Djokovic since he won 14 of their first 18 matches, and then forget about what happened later... you are doing exactly that but in reverse.
 

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Nadal's forehand failed in the following years: 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015-2016, 2017-2020.
Nadal's forehand clicked in the following years: 2013 (explaining the 2-2 record).

It's almost like they are saying Nadal got lucky that one year, which is why he could never replicate it again.
Nadal's forehand declined after 2014. Perhaps it's the movement needed to set up the shot and not the shot itself, but whatever the reason there's a clear difference and I think everybody will agree on that. It didn't "fail" in 2011 or 2012, although to be sure Nadal lost a lot of winnable matches in that period (and was a bit too tentative/predicable in some of them).
 

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Monte Carlo 2013 was both of them at full force and Nole swept him up like a rag doll.
That match had a tiebreak in the second set... it could easily have gone to 3, that's not a sweep. In any case Nadal played very differently from their later match at RG, and again the main difference was the forehand down the line. It's almost as if he was trying to beat Nole without it at MC, or he wasn't confident enough in it at the time.
 

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Nadal's forehand declined after 2014. Perhaps it's the movement needed to set up the shot and not the shot itself, but whatever the reason there's a clear difference and I think everybody will agree on that. It didn't "fail" in 2011 or 2012, although to be sure Nadal lost a lot of winnable matches in that period (and was a bit too tentative/predicable in some of them).
This does not explain why it is almost impossible for Nadal to break the Djokovic serve on a hard court. To give you an example, Nadal broke the Djokovic serve just one time over their past seven meetings on a hard court (including twice over the past nine). A relative unknown such as Corentin Moutet did better than Nadal against Djokovic, because he was able to break the Djokovic serve twice at the Paris Masters last year.

It begs the question: why can low ranked player like Moutet break the Djokovic serve, but Nadal cannot? What does Moutet do differently/better than Nadal?

Nadal is arguably Djokovic's easiest opponent on a hard court. Had Nadal had a low ranking, one can better be able to understand why Nadal looks like an infant against Djokovic. But he is still ranked #2 in the world.
 

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It begs the question: why can low ranked player like Moutet break the Djokovic serve, but Nadal cannot? What does Moutet do differently/better than Nadal?
This is a good question. What do you think is the answer? Djokovic did improve his serve under Becker, but I think at this point a bit part of it might be a mental/confidence issue for Nadal, stemming from his decline.
In any case this started happening in 2015, which was my point. Before that it was common for them to be trading breaks all the time.
 

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This is a good question. What do you think is the answer? Djokovic did improve his serve under Becker, but I think at this point a bit part of it might be a mental/confidence issue for Nadal.
In any case this started happening in 2015, which was my point. Before that it was common for them to be trading breaks all the time.
The biggest difference is the serve. Djokovic's serve is a weapon, which was not the case during 2011-2013. Also, the courts as a whole are not playing as slow as they did in years past. Australia, for instance, is unrecognisable today. Djokovic can also take more risks on the Nadal serve because he knows he can hold his own much easier.

Of course, there is mental/confidence too. Djokovic does not fear Nadal, but Nadal fears Djokovic.
 

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These claybots keep repeating FDTL the key to beating Novak. Sorry, it’s a little more complicated than that. Team Novak knows the tendencies of the top players & never allow their opponents to dial into their ‘strengths’ for any extended periods & the most obvious surfaces where he can control these parameters r on HC, then Grass but least on Clay as his GS tally reflects.
 
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