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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I can't find a thread on it so I decided to make one. I have been reading up on it and I'm a bit confused in some areas. I'm also making this thread for those people who are also as confused as I am on how this cup works. Here is the schedule. https://www.atpcup.com/schedule

So basically there are 6 groups, in each group, there are 4 countries. So group A, for example, has Serbia, France, South Africa and Chile. The winner of each group qualifies and the top 2 runner ups from the 6 groups also qualify. Afterwards there will be a knockout stage of QF/SF/F. In each tie, there are 2 singles matches and one doubles tie. Whatever country wins the 2 out of those 3 matches wins the tie. That is easy to understand. To clarify, are the singles tie chosen as in the #1 ranked player of x country playing the #1 ranked player of y country or is it #1 vs #2? It is #2 vs #2 and #1 vs #1, correct?

Also curious on how are the top 2 runners up chosen from the 6 groups, does each match count as one point? Or is it each tie?


An example of a group:

352949


Now to the more complicated part, how does the ranking distribution actually work? Okay basically this is the chart:

352948


For doubles is simple enough, however for singles the rank of your opponent matters. Let's for example just focus on the group stage level to makes things easier. Ignore the knockouts.

So for example Nadal faces a top 10 player in his first tie, he gets 75 points, in his 2nd tie he faces a top 50 player, he gets 50 points, in his 3rd tie, he faces a top 100, he gets 25 points. So from the group stage, he gets 150 points in total. But its also possible for another player in another group who has won 3 matches as well to get a total of 225 points if he faces a top 10 player in each tie. Isn't it a bit unfair.? So I'm kinda perplexed by this format, doesn't this makes things very complicated? Or am I inferring things wrong here? Am I missing something? How were the groups actually formed? Was there a format, seedings made? I was thinking of that, but then Germany are apparently the 5th seed and Greece the 6th seed and they are in the same group? :confused: If any kind soul completely understands this format, please explain :spit:

And they say a single player can earn a maximum of 750 points, how does that work? From my calculations, if a player is "lucky" enough to meet top 10 players in each match he plays, he would get a total of 775 points? Or I guess that is definitely simply technically not possible? All in all, this Cup seems like an unnecessarily complicated mess tbh. Not a fan, but I'll definitely gonna keep an eye to understand more of it and hope it delivers some good tennis matches. I personally think ranking points should have been abolished for this tournament.
 

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I can answer one part. It is 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2.

So Nadal faces the highest ranked player of each nation. They will not all be top 10 since the groups are weighted before hand (so Fed, Djoko and Nadal in one group is impossible in theory).
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Even the prize money system is complicated rofl https://www.perfect-tennis.com/prize-money/atp-cup/

Even that is divided on rankings and so on.


I can answer one part. It is 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2.

So Nadal faces the highest ranked player of each nation. They will not all be top 10 since the groups are weighted before hand (so Fed, Djoko and Nadal in one group is impossible in theory).
How are they weighted though? Why are Zverev and Tsitsipas in the same group despite being ranked #5 and #6
 

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U
Even the prize money system is complicated rofl https://www.perfect-tennis.com/prize-money/atp-cup/

Even that is divided on rankings and so on.




How are they weighted though? Why are Zverev and Tsitsipas in the same group despite being ranked #5 and #6
The top 3 seeds formed separate groups. Then the others are placed after. Germany, Russia and Austria were the next best seeds so got separate groups too. After that Greece. This was done in September, not now.

Federer screwed things a little so Group C is somewhat weaker now replaced with Moldova, even with Andy playing, and Haneul won't be pleased either for you know what reasons.
 

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Well we will see just how complicated it is and how it all goes down. They can always tweak things in further years. Hopefully they reconcile with ITF and go back to the regular tournaments and make an agreement on the real Davis Cup. But we will see what's going on.

Every match matters
 

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The ATP cup website explains things pretty well, and the comment to face all top 10 players and 775 points, that’s not at all possible based on how the Groups are sorted , a couple of groups have 2 top ten players, the most interesting group F with Tsitsipas/Zverev/Shapovalov/DeMinaur playing RR against each other, so Shapovalov and DeMinaur will play 2 top 10 players.

As others have commented these groups were not formed at seasons end , but in September, Germany is 6 and Greece 7 is how they end up in same Group.

I can’t understand why people seem so down on this event, looks like great matchups and each player is Guaranteed 3 matches, so a fine tune up heading towards AO , against Quality opposition.

I’d prefer to see DC tossed at the end of a long season, ATP cup seems like a perfect spot to have a team event, to start the year and leading to the first GS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The ATP cup website explains things pretty well, and the comment to face all top 10 players and 775 points, that’s not at all possible based on how the Groups are sorted , a couple of groups have 2 top ten players, the most interesting group F with Tsitsipas/Zverev/Shapovalov/DeMinaur playing RR against each other, so Shapovalov and DeMinaur will play 2 top 10 players.

As others have commented these groups were not formed at seasons end , but in September, Germany is 6 and Greece 7 is how they end up in same Group.

I can’t understand why people seem so down on this event, looks like great matchups and each player is Guaranteed 3 matches, so a fine tune up heading towards AO , against Quality opposition.

I’d prefer to see DC tossed at the end of a long season, ATP cup seems like a perfect spot to have a team event, to start the year and leading to the first GS.
Ah I see. No wonder Germany and Greece are in the same group and with Swiss withdrawal they are pushed up. Makes sense.

So that means it’s only possible for one group to have a maximum of 2 top 10 players. It’s something like pots. Top 6 seeds have their own group, then 4 other top 10 will join those groups, and the list goes on and on. However in some groups there is only one top 10 player. This system doesn’t seems to give equal opportunities all to gain the same ranking points. But okay I understood.

How do they decide 2nd runner ups? I guess the one who won most points? But I’m just curious how are the points settled, I assume each match played counts as one point?
 

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Ah I see. No wonder Germany and Greece are in the same group and with Swiss withdrawal they are pushed up. Makes sense.

So that means it’s only possible for one group to have a maximum of 2 top 10 players. It’s something like pots. Top 6 seeds have their own group, then 4 other top 10 will join those groups, and the list goes on and on. However in some groups there is only one top 10 player. This system doesn’t seems to give equal opportunities all to gain the same ranking points. But okay I understood.

How do they decide 2nd runner ups? I guess the one who won most points? But I’m just curious how are the points settled, I assume each match played counts as one point?
Yes you can win a few more points if you take the harder route and beat higher ranked players on the way. I guess if an easy draw falls in your lap, you'll win a bit less.

I'm not sure on how 2nd runners up are settled, I did see it earlier somewhere, but can't locate on the site tonight, I would assume starting with win/loss for country , most should be 2-1 that will need tie broken, assume by the 9 individual matches within the ties in the 3 days of RR , being the next tiebreak method. (Assuming you would be correct and each of the 9 matches count as 1 point each)

Here's how Day 1 & 2 MATCHES look:

DAY 1

Denis SHAPOVALOV vs. Stefanos TSITSIPAS
Daniil MEDVEDEV vs Matteo BERRETTINI
Alexander ZVEREV vs. Alex DE MINAUR
David GOFFIN vs. Grigor DIMITROV
Jan-Lennard STRUFF vs. Nick KYRGIOS
Fabio FOGNINI vs. Karen KHACHANOV
Andy MURRAY vs. Radu ALBOT
Casper RUUD vs. John ISNER
Daniel EVANS vs. Alexander COZBINOV
Steve DARCIS vs. Dimitar KUZMANOV
Viktor DURASOVIC vs. Taylor FRITZ
Felix AUGER-ALIASSIME vs. Michail PERVOLARAKIS

DAY 2

Borna CORIC vs. Dominic THIEM
Yoshihito NISHIOKA vs. Martin CUEVAS
Gael MONFILS vs. Christian GARIN
Novak DJOKOVIC vs. Kevin ANDERSON
Kei NISHIKORI vs. Pablo CUEVAS
Rafa NADAL vs. Nikoloz BASILASHVILI
Hubert HURKACZ vs. Diego SCHWARTZMAN
Kamil MAJCHRZAK vs. Guido PELLA
Marin CILIC vs. Dennis NOVAK
Dusan LAJOVIC vs. Lloyd HARRIS
Benoit PAIRE vs. Nicolas JARRY
Roberto BAUTISTA AGUT vs. Aleksandre METREVELI
 

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They say that "points will be awarded for a match win in each round and the amount of rankings points depends on the ranking of the opponent and the round of the result".

So where can we find exact number of points that player can earn in the upcoming match?
 

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Some real pathetic matches on tomorrow top 10 vs 800 in the world, what a stupid tournament
 

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So that means, Novak is dependent on someone else (Lajovic) to win the group stage and to have the opportunity to collect further ranking points for himself?
That is not fair in my opinion since top players (e.g. Nadal) from bigger and stronger countries have the advantage to play with a stronger partner (e.g. Bautista) which also favours them and their ranking points.
 

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So that means, Novak is dependent on someone else (Lajovic) to win the group stage and to have the opportunity to collect further ranking points for himself?
That is not fair in my opinion since top players (e.g. Nadal) from bigger and stronger countries have the advantage to play with a stronger partner (e.g. Bautista) which also favours them and their ranking points.
That is how Davis Cup used to work in terms of ranking points as well. The difference here is that the number of ranking points he gets is dependent on the ranking of the opponent, with players facing against countries with close ranked players earning more than those facing Greece, Norway or Bulgaria.
 

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I can’t understand why people seem so down on this event, looks like great matchups and each player is Guaranteed 3 matches, so a fine tune up heading towards AO , against Quality opposition.
1. We already had two team events in the last few months. Tennis is an individual sport.
2. The ATP Cup is deeply unfair because of the large anount of money and points goes to players who didn't qualify on their own merits.
3. We get show court matches like FAA vs Pervolarakis, Fritz vs Durasovic and Darcis vs Cozbinov. Why oh why?
 
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