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This is not really a debate about the existence of God per say.

More a question.

If it says in the bible "God said this"..how can you know he did?

I mean anyone can write on a piece of paper what God said.

Its like, no one is perfect except God or Jesus, except neither wrote the bible.

So how can imperfect people write a perfect book.

Well they can of course. Under Gods guidance.

But how do you know they did?

If God isnt around or wont defend the Bible, then theres no real way of knowing. Even if he did appear before people, you can just insert your own things and say he said this or that.
 

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Yes, you can't know. Matter of belief.

End of thread? :lol:
 

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The vast majority of people couldn't read or write in those days. Stories were mostly passed around orally. For sure, it's easy for stories to get distorted that way.

I'm not sure about the Old Testament, but I took a course in university about the New Testament -- the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Three of the four are very similar and people probably think these guys got together to 'get their stories straight.' But there's plenty of historical evidence that they didn't and some didn't even live in the same era as the others (or there was some overlap, but one would've been a child when the other was an old man). It's not likely they read each other either, as there was no printing press at the time to reproduce writings, and no telecommunication. Christianity wasn't even a religion; these new concepts were still falling under the banner of Judaism. Some people wanting to take Judaism in a new direction based on the events of Jesus's life, others resisting the new movement. The full-on separation happened later.

Guess that doesn't really answer your question :p Just thought I'd post what I learned.
 

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Continuing with NT lesson:

The names Matthew, Luke, Mark and John were given later; the gospels in truth are written by unknown writers, not by any disciples. Additionally, Luke and John have quite likely used Mark as a source. The first gospel was written around 60-70 AD and the last one around 100 AD.

There are plenty of inconsistensies in the stories across the board, though the broad story remains the same.
 

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Continuing with NT lesson:

The names Matthew, Luke, Mark and John were given later; the gospels in truth are written by unknown writers, not by any disciples. Additionally, Luke and John have quite likely used Mark as a source. The first gospel was written around 60-70 AD and the last one around 100 AD.

There are plenty of inconsistensies in the stories across the board, though the broad story remains the same.
yeah, that's right -- I forgot about that stuff. It has been a very long time since uni ;)

Also there are 'independent' records -- such as things written by Roman historians (who were not Jewish or "Christian" obviously) that support many Christian stories, though not really corroborating any "God said" quotes word for word.
 

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The Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, isn't about truth, in its objective, perspective-free sense, it is about reinforcing a world view.
You should look at it that way, and see that your question is quite a moot point. ;)
 

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Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews, 11:1)

You don't KNOW. You BELIEVE.

We're not talking nuclear reactions, there's no need for proof.
 
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asking about life’s most important questions on a tennis forum is foolish (especially mtf). there are plenty of resources online that can help you make an informed opinion about god, the bible, history, and science. here’s one from a biblical perspective....

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers

/thread
 

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asking about life’s most important questions on a tennis forum is foolish (especially mtf). there are plenty of resources online that can help you make an informed opinion about god, the bible, history, and science. here’s one from a biblical perspective....

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers

/thread
You can't seriously suggest a full-on creationist BS-filled website? There are surely much better Christian websites out there.
 
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asking about life’s most important questions on a tennis forum is foolish (especially mtf). there are plenty of resources online that can help you make an informed opinion about god, the bible, history, and science.
What part of ''non'' do you not understand?

And as for your suggested website........... It is sad that anyone could consider that garbage as an aid to making an informed opinion.
 

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Do you question who your father is?No.you just believe.God is same.You believe.:wavey:
 
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The Bible, or any other religious text for that matter, isn't about truth, in its objective, perspective-free sense, it is about reinforcing a world view.
You should look at it that way, and see that your question is quite a moot point. ;)
What kind of other truth is there?

In any case, that isn't accurate. The Bible makes extraordinary empirical claims that are of necessity either true or false. Did God create the universe in 6 days? Is that a metaphor, and he created it otherwise? Was Jesus God incarnate, and was he born of a virgin, performed miracles and rose from the dead? These questions have answers. Answers that are beyond the realm of subjectivity.

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews, 11:1)

You don't KNOW. You BELIEVE.

We're not talking nuclear reactions, there's no need for proof.
Of course there is need for proof! You are free to believe what you want, that is not the issue. But as soon as you are claiming what you believe to be true, then, my friend, you need proof, or else your claims are not to be taken as holding any truth.

This is really the key point: faith. We humans do not accept faith as a valid path to knowledge. With one exception: religion. If I told you my dog talks to me in scouse, you'd immediately demand proof. And I may not cop out by saying "oh but you don't need to KNOW, you BELIEVE".

Religion and God are no different. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

asking about life’s most important questions on a tennis forum is foolish (especially mtf). there are plenty of resources online that can help you make an informed opinion about god, the bible, history, and science. here’s one from a biblical perspective....

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers

/thread
The creatonist site par excellence presented as a resource that can help people develop an informed opinion about history and science.

Damn MTF, you scary...

Do you question who your father is?No.you just believe.God is same.You believe.:wavey:
Really?? I mean, really???

Your assumption that your father is indeed your father is based on observation and reason. There are millions of men in the world that claim to be their son's fathers, and the vast majority of them are. Men marry women and show a distinct inclination not to share that woman with any other men. This has evolutionary grounds, and is observed throughout the animal kingdom, including in humans. Sons tend to resemble the men who claim to be their fathers. They tend to inherit medical conditions from their fathers, etc. These are observable facts. Not to mention that today, thanks to DNA, it is actually possible to prove without a reasonable doubt that your father is indeed your father.

Case God. We have no instances of Gods creating universes in 6 days. We have no instances of anybody performing miracles, or being born of a virgin, or rising from the dead. We have no observation of an almighty consciousness capable of listening to the requests of millions of people at the same time, and answering them. In fact, all these things seem to radically go against any observable evidence we have about the universe. The hypothesis that God exists is not based on observation, it is not based on reason and it is not based on evidence.

Your analogy doesn't even begin to make sense.
 
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Can't we just make it simple... If you believe, you don't need proof because you are sure that it's true. If you don't believe, why do you even ask? Just be sure it's not true and it shouldn't bother you.
 

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