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Discussion Starter #1
I remember a couple of years ago I used to like watching a player called BHDTLovic, wondering if anybody knows whether he's retired or injured or what?!

Okay seriously guys - Nole got his tactics all wrong today IMO. Yes he was mentally feeble BUT he needs to fire his coaches asap and hire lendl or a tactician and keep vajda on part time maybe

Where the hell was that trademark BHDTL?? The shots he needs to hit against Nadal are the sharp CCBH, but polarise it so 1/3 or 50% of the time he smashes a flat BHDTL winner or comes to net to finish a Nadal slice to keep Nadal honest. Today he only "pushed" his BHDTL and it got him hardly any points all match... Also, if he lacks confidence on the shot, just run around it like fed and bash an inside in FH with spin - high margin shot - and go and finish the point

Another thing, from his FH corner, he needs to hit CCFH short and angled with spin OR if he doesn't want to go as wide he needs to bash... He was pushing and allowing Nadal to run around onto his FH and point over

Finally, I mentioned this in live commentary but early on you could see Nadal was hitting too many FHDTL off noles CCBH. IMO the amount of spin Nadal gets mean this is a routine shot.. However, if you noticed, whenever Nole hit deep and hard down the middle, Nadal either made an error or gave a short ball. Instead of constantly hitting his CCBH and inside out FH out wide, consistently getting counterpunched - if he hit down the middle, deep and hard then he would most of the time get a short ball or weak reply and chance to hit a big FH. Nadal needs time and players who take time away from him cause him problems, mentally too, he hates being hit off the court more than anything - Blake davydenko del potro etc.. It's like boxing, if you're consistently being countered when you go for a right hook... Throw a different punch, don't try and throw it harder and be wild making errors.

Like I said Nadal would find it a LOT harder hitting FHDTL winners of a really hard shot down the middle - if he does, well too good, but what we've seen this clay season is he's spraying errors with his FH even when he has time, I posted this tactic in the live commentary as early as set 1 or 2, IMO it was evident just hit a CCBH and then next shot hit hard down the middle.

But most of the tour doesn't seem to understand this tactic - Tio obviously does, nadal was body serving to Nole beautifully. Also, muguruza did this to Serena - she beat Serena 2&2 by just bashing down the middle, getting a short ball or error, and Serena had no reply. Same for Nadal, and the more he tries to cover the middle he stands further back meaning more vulnerable to the BHDTL or inside in/out FH as well.

Sorry for the long post, thoughts?
 

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Moonballs were too high for Djokovic the ball was going over his shoulders he couldn't control his DTL backhand to hit it with power and accuracy :shrug:
 

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Today's match was an abomination. Both players were messed up. Nole was clearly more worried about preserving energy than executing the right tactic. Even Nadal was spent after 3h of play. The better player on the day won, but can't be used for an analysis of coaching or tactics.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I agree nadals moonballs were too high, but then he needs to hit to the BH or flat down the middle - if you aren't going for accuracy just bashing deep it should've been okay.. Or run around the BH?

I agree Nadal was better on the day BUT Nadal was also shit, it was just tactics won this match - nadals were perfect and jokes terrible
 

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when he did hit to nadals backhand he was winning most of the points, but he seemed intent on hitting to nadals forehand. ferrer is the only player who does this tactic and sticks to it.
 

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The problem is hitting the backhand with precision over the course of 3-4 hours play. It is simply too difficult to find Rafa's backhand on clay in these conditions. Rafa's footwork on dry clay is just amazing - he can run around almost anything. Even the deep backhands DTL from Djokovic was punished by Nadal unless Djokovic really put som pace on it. This is the most important dynamic between the two. Rafa in good shape on clay (especially in hot conditions) is simply better than Djokovic IMO. On HC it is a totally different story. Easier for Novak to time his backhand, not as easy for Rafa to use his forehand.
 

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when he did hit to nadals backhand he was winning most of the points, but he seemed intent on hitting to nadals forehand. ferrer is the only player who does this tactic and sticks to it.
not true, there were periods of the time were Djokovic selectively ONLY was hitting to the Nadal backhand (I can show you some clips later), backhand, backhand, backhand- but Nadal did a pretty good job today with keeping his backhand in and being patient until he got an opportunity. especially in that last set Nadal just is too good on the legs, keeping the ball in play whatever it takes

you can attack the Nadal backhand all you want but if is moving better than you and managing to deflect the ball back into play and you hit overheads like Djokovic and aren't tactical enough he will wear you down until you hit your own error

the backhand down the line technique also is low percentage if you're REALLY going for it against Nadal beacause he moves so well. Djokovic was hitting errors when he tried to do it because the Nadal spin was hard to handle but also because he thought he had to compensate for Nadal's speed by hitting it really far on the edges of the lines (which is sort of true)

I don't think tactics were Novak's primary problem, I think his attitude and physical well being were. he looked out of it
 

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not true, there were periods of the time were Djokovic selectively ONLY was hitting to the Nadal backhand (I can show you some clips later), backhand, backhand, backhand- but Nadal did a pretty good job today with keeping his backhand in and being patient until he got an opportunity. especially in that last set Nadal just is too good on the legs, keeping the ball in play whatever it takes

you can attack the Nadal backhand all you want but if is moving better than you and managing to deflect the ball back into play and you hit overheads like Djokovic and aren't tactical enough he will wear you down until you hit your own error

the backhand down the line technique also is low percentage if you're REALLY going for it against Nadal beacause he moves so well. Djokovic was hitting errors when he tried to do it because the Nadal spin was hard to handle but also because he thought he had to compensate for Nadal's speed by hitting it really far on the edges of the lines (which is sort of true)

I don't think tactics were Novak's primary problem, I think his attitude and physical well being were. he looked out of it
He broke down Nadal's BH quite a bit, but blew so many points he had already won by UE's or by hitting it right to Nadal. He would do 90% of the work to win a point and then blow it.
 
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