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When one wants to be dismissive of the H2Hs facts, one tends to run straight to this one overly used excuse of "BAD MATCH-UP." It's as if saying the words "bad match-up" magically has the power to make an embarrassing H2H a moot and meaningless point. In a sport ALL about match-ups why does someone being a bad matchup give a player an acceptable excuse for getting their butts kicked yet at the same time people aren't allowed to extrapolate that it equates to a certain player being better against another player? Oh wait let's rephrase that cuz most sane people do make that connection- it's only when it comes to Fed vs. Nadal that we reach into our BS bag of excuses and invoke this silky asterisk rule...too funny for words!

A true GOAT raises to the occasion and makes adjustments and doesn't get dominated by his biggest rival in the most lopsided H2H that any of the GOATS before ever carried. What player did Sampras play more than 10 times that he had such a one-sided losing H2H against- same question for the other greats?

Let's revisit this idea of bad match-ups for a second. Isn't it fair to assume that most players who have a losing record against another player have a match-up issue? All of Feds pigeons, past and present, didn't match up well against him. Great players present problems to other players, the harder it is to beat someone the more challenge they present- and if u find Urself on the losing end more often than not it's a bad match-up.

One would expect a true GOAT to be able to problem solve and find a way. Having a losing record ISNT the problem, so let me be clear- the problem is having such a lopsided losing record.

Another note of clarity- H2Hs are just one of many factors and I clearly recognize that

There isnt a player when (insert any great champion) is playing that can stand in the way when 'said' player is playing at their respective best. Ok now go back and read that sentence and plug in Sampras, Serena, Laver, Graf...now plug in Federer's name and have a good laugh. ;) not to be so harsh on him in particular but it's fans that cant stop with the bad match-up nonsense so it's deserved.
 

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power to you brotha.
 

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"sadly" fed is also a good claycourter.

if he would be a clay-mug like sampras, his h2h against dull would be something like 8-11, which means he would be a better player, right?! :)
 

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Imagine if Mohammed Ali said Joe Frazier was a bad match up and accepted it. Imagine if Michael Jordan said the Detroit Pistons were bad match up and gave up. GOATs rise above bad match ups because they are mentally stronger.
 

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I haven't read the OP yet, but I'm just gonna say that it's an explanation and shouldn't be used as an blanket excuse.
 

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A true GOAT raises to the occasion and makes adjustments and doesn't get dominated by his biggest rival in the most lopsided H2H that any of the GOATS before ever carried.
That's obviously nonsense, and a fairytale crafted in a way to demean Federer. There is NOTHING Federer can adjust to overcome this match-up disadvantage. For him to overcome it, he would need to change his backhand grip, or change to a two-hander. Now that doesn't reflect too badly on Roger because it's too late to change these things. We the fans of Roger just have to accept that Nadull got lucky.

Nadull's biggest rival is Djokovic, not Federer. Nadull and Djokovic are very close in age, whereas Fed is 5 years older. Nadull against a prime Djokovic trails 6-11.


Let's revisit this idea of bad match-ups for a second. Isn't it fair to assume that most players who have a losing record against another player have a match-up issue?
No. Not unless the H2H is relatively lopsided should you assume there are match-up issues, and even then you need to analyse each case separately.


All you have done is define GOAT in a very specific way, so as to exclude Federer. What I think happened is that you made the emotional choice that Federer can't be GOAT, and you are now clutching at straws and writing all sorts of crap to change reality into your fantasy. It doesn't really work like that.

You can babble all you want about GOATs focusing their mentality to overcome the deficit blah blah... But when it's Rome and Nadull is moonballing Federer's BH, it's a major uphill battle. Not because Nadull is so talented, but because of a lucky match-up advantage. In contrast, surfaces with low bounce will show Federer leading the H2H - because it lessens the match-up issue.

Being a bad match up isn't an excuse, but often H2Hs don't say much at face value, so you examine it further.

The reasons why the H2H is lopsided:

- Bad match-up
- Clay-skewed
- Federer is 5 years older than Nadull, who peaked early
- Technology made topspin moonballs more deadly

Short version: Nadull was extremely lucky that the most dominant player in tennis matches up poorly with his own game. Too late to change BH/grip. It's one of the main reasons why the H2H is lopsided.
 

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and if there isn't a bad match-up, why is dull indoor/grass 2-6 against fed?! :confused:
why don't you count hard courts instead of indoor?
 

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Why didn't Bald raise his level against Davy? He was injured, no?
 

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H2H logic again? If Federer retired after winning Wimbledon 2012 at 31, he'd be a much better player today using that logic.

It was 10-18 in 28 meetings out of which 14 had been on clay which is 50% of the meetings, when overall the tour has about 30% clay tournaments. Not even considering the match up issue and the close epic matches which was won in the decider by Nadal.

Also You guys a conveniently adding up the H2H with wins over a declined Olderer post 2012 who was losing to guys like Brands, Delbonis and Boredo.
 

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The Last Mohican
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Why didn't Bald raise his level against Davy? He was injured, no?
Bald did his usual "spartan" routine. That is, wait for a player to decline or choke. If Davydenko was the same age as DULL, he would lead the H2H 19-8 and Nadulltards would be noticing a match-up issue.
 
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