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Gugaholic
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You should learn to read. At the end, I said that the problem is much deeper, it's not only about guns. The American society has a problem, if not, this kind of things wouldn't happen so often.
I'm talking about psychological tests. That's quite obvious.
Everyone get tested, so what? Lock up all those with potential of a killer? Force them to an asylum for psychos?

And it's not only American society has this problem. Other countries have something similar.

I am not saying there's no problem and I am not saying nothing should be done. Actually, from what I saw from an interview last night on TV, a government agency has a section analysing this kind of rampage and trying to come up with some policies. It's just that it's not a knee jerk reaction and I thank God for that.
 

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I don't know what they should do with that people but they can't have a gun. There ust be some kind of barrier to buy guns.


Of course that things happens in other countries, but most fo the times happen in the US and there is a reason.
 

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I don't know what they should do with that people but they can't have a gun. There ust be some kind of barrier to buy guns.


Of course that things happens in other countries, but most fo the times happen in the US and there is a reason.
Actually this is just a repetition of what I said in my good rep to you. But I decided to say it here too. There are many nations where this type of shootings are worse then U.S. They are in developing nations like Brazil. Also U.S. is a huge country. One cannot compare a nation of 300 million with one of 60 million. To compare it it may be best to so so with another developed huge region such as EU. And what have we had recently? Shootings in Germany, UK, Switzerland etc.. Finally it is not much better then U.S.
 

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I was responding to chris that if we are to make gun policy based on the crime rates of other countries then the UK should copy switzerland as they have a lower crime rate then them, this would mean that guns could be legally purchased...
Maybe it is just the use of ''they'' and ''them''

I understand the above sentence as saying that the UK has a lower crime rate than Switzerland, but I think you mean the opposite. Something like -

.....the UK should copy Switzerland, which has a lower crime rate.
 

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You should learn to read. At the end, I said that the problem is much deeper, it's not only about guns. The American society has a problem, if not, this kind of things wouldn't happen so often.
I'm talking about psychological tests. That's quite obvious.
Well, I'll finish by saying that I agree it is not just the availability of guns that is the problem. School shootings only rarely take place outside the US. Therefore the problem does seem to be in US culture. I suggest it is the result of extreme religous beliefs, take any religion you like, most of them are obsessed with images of death and destruction and righteous elimination out the non-believers.
 

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Gugaholic
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Well, I'll finish by saying that I agree it is not just the availability of guns that is the problem. School shootings only rarely take place outside the US. Therefore the problem does seem to be in US culture. I suggest it is the result of extreme religous beliefs, take any religion you like, most of them are obsessed with images of death and destruction and righteous elimination out the non-believers.
huh? I don't recall any of the school shootings in US have anything to do with religion.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Why is there no gigantic "black market for firearms" in Western Europe, Iceland, Scandinavia, Australia, or New Zealand then?
first off Iceland has 250,000 people, lol, western europe certianly has a problem with illegal gun market, I know the UK has it, in scandanavia they are having growing problems with armed eastern european gangs, not sure about Australia and New Zealand, but I am sure you have no idea on what their gun black market looks like...

But if we are using your logic then why is it that a country like switzerland with more gun ownership than the UK, has lower crime rates?
 

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Switzerland has high gun ownership but a low crime rate because they have a high per capita income and very good living conditions for all (as a friend told me, "there are no slums in Switzerland!"). Britain has alot of people living in inner cities who are living in poverty, plus there are problems with gangs and large numbers of immigrants who don't get along with each other.

To generalize, Swiss people get along with each other well, and have proven themselves to be very reasonable, non-violent people, so if they want to have guns, they can have them, and I'm not worried about hearing of mass shootings in Basel any time soon.

Americans on the other hand, don't have such a good track record with guns, and tend to take liberties with guns that people from other countries don't take. I know the Virginia Tech shooter was South Korean, but he lived here since he was 8 and I think that America's violent culture might have rubbed off on him a little (I haven't heard of too many mass shootings in Seoul either). There are alot of great people in America, but also a whole lot of homicidal maniacs, who may snap at any moment and go on a shooting spree. These lunatics just don't exist in such large numbers in other developed countries.

In Britain we had a mass shooting in Hungerford and then one a few years later in Dunblane. After the second one, everybody said enough is enough, we adopted tighter gun laws, you got to hand in your weapons without any questions being asked and we moved on. There have been no mass shootings in Britain since Dunblane in 1996. I don't know if it will happen again, but I think we sent a firm message out that we don't tolerate that kind of shit. If one person fucks up, then everybody gets punished for it (gun owners, anyway). Seems to be a reasonable way to go about things, seems like its worked so far. Logic like this never seems to be applied on the other side of the Atlantic.

In the States, they just let this shit happen over and over again, and they say that taking away guns won't solve anything, that people will always find guns. Well yes, they will always find guns because they make so fucking many! Stop making the guns, try to destroy as many as we can, get guns out of the public eye as much as possible, and with time, maybe things will get better. Maybe not, because many Americans are fucking insane after all, but you have to at least try to do something different, because the current policy on guns is clearly not working. How many times does this have to happen before change takes place. The sad thing is, change doesn't happen when it should in the U.S. I know its off topic, but we have known for a long time that the reasons for going to war in Iraq were based on faulty intelligence and that the general public and politicians were misled. Has something benn done to rectify this? No! The point I'm trying to make is that the United States does not take action when it needs to, colossal mistakes are never corrected. There could be 50 university students killed each day for the next year, and they still wouldn't change anything. And that is the greatest example of idiocy you could ever witness.
 

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Domestic dispute in Ville Platte turns deadly
Town Talk staff

An argument between a Ville Platte couple seeking a divorce ended Monday morning with both dead.

Carrol Prudhomme, 61, and Brenda O. Prudhomme, 59, both died at a Ville Platte hospital after the two shot each other during an argument just before 10:30 a.m. Monday at Brenda Prudhomme's home, police said.

Ville Platte Police Sgt. Linton Fontenot said Carrol Prudhomme went to his estranged wife's new home, 121 St. Paul St., after discovering something earlier that morning. Fontenot said he doesn't know at this point in time what it was that made Carrol Prudhomme go to Brenda Prudhomme's home in anger. Once there, the two began to fight, and both pulled out guns -- one a .38-caliber pistol and the other a 9mm pistol, Fontenot said. Each of the Prudhommes was shot in the torso.

Fontenot said this is the first encounter the Police Department has had with the couple.

No one else was at the home at the time of the shooting. The two had grown children.


:eek: :eek:
ok! guns don't prevent the murders but i'm sure that guns made things easier for themself and will make things easier many others in the future .:rolleyes:
 

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If one person fucks up, then everybody gets punished for it (gun owners, anyway). Seems to be a reasonable way to go about things, seems like its worked so far. Logic like this never seems to be applied on the other side of the Atlantic.
That would absolutely not work. With something like that, all the ordinary people are going to be getting guns illegally too, because they'll feel their rights are being taken away or whatever.

It's just something people are used to here. If the government ever bans guns they're going to have to figure out how to do it gradually, or it would be a mess.
 

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Nobody knows if it would work or not until it actually happens. If the only people allowed to have guns were the police and security officers, I think it wold help. Some criminals might still be able to get access to guns, but with time this could change. I would also suggest that the gun deaths that would take place if guns were banned would mostly be criminals shooting other criminals.

The bottom line is that the problems could not be any worse than what is happening right now, so something needs to be done.
 

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Nobody knows if it would work or not until it actually happens. If the only people allowed to have guns were the police and security officers, I think it wold help. Some criminals might still be able to get access to guns, but with time this could change. I would also suggest that the gun deaths that would take place if guns were banned would mostly be criminals shooting other criminals.

The bottom line is that the problems could not be any worse than what is happening right now, so something needs to be done.
Well, my mum and my uncle have planned elaborate ways to keep their guns if this ever happens. :tape: So I'm rather skeptical. It seems like a lot of people will find any way possible to get around this, and I'm worried that might make it easier for any random person to get a gun since people will start getting them illegally all the time.
 

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so if they want to have guns, they can have them, and I'm not worried about hearing of mass shootings in Basel any time soon.
The debate about the army guns of members of the Swiss army isn't non-existing in Switzerland either. Because of the few gun delicts they record (especially on the domestic and familial level) a huge amount is done by army guns. A Swiss study done at the University of Zürich claims that the availability of a weapon especially favours the impulsive intent as the weapon allows a quick realization of your intent. (BTW, it also found this is true for suicides, where army guns play a crucial role especially for males who kill themselves.)

Overall I still agree, given the amount of weapons in households, their gun crime is low, that's what you also said. And lets hope there will never be a mass shooting in Basel, I did not hear from one yet. But you can have idiots and menally ill people in every country, and in Switzerland shootings also did happen, most of the time one or two victims. I think the biggest one was 14 killed people that I heard of.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Lets not forget the USA is also a country of 300 million people, so youd expect to see more of these shooting in number than in European numbers.

Something that has not been mentioned is the fact that crie rates in the USA have been going down and are at 50 year record lows, or around there. I have heard policemean and economist who have made statistics about murder rate and they both agree most of it comes from the drug prohibition.l

Another thing to mention, in columbine two big propane bombs where place that if exploded would of killed many more, I think both where done with commonly used and legal material, my point is when someone is crazy and plans out a killing they will find a way to do it...
 

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Guns should be banned, and I don't see what all the fuss is about.

The 2nd Amendment was brought into being in order to protect the US civilians from a corrupt and unwanted government (I'm sure those who framed the constitution had Britain in mind) and is really the rather radical right to insurrection. Using the wording of the 2nd Amendment to justify gun ownership in the 21st Century just seems to me to be bizarre.

However, I personally can't see any real changes in the law happening in the near future, partly because it would probably be a major vote-losing idea, in particular with the influence of the NRA in American politics.

I think it is unquestionable that the east access to guns which seems to exist in America is rather influential in boosting the number of shootings.....that would seem obvious to me.
Of course one would still be able to get hold of a gun even if they were banned, but the illegality of possession, and the added trouble which it would be necessary to go to in order to obtain one would certainly lead to fewer gun owners.
Great post - and exactly how I feel. Of course people will always find a way to get hold of a gun if they want to, but to my mind, the very fact that guns are legal in the States and can be kept in households where young chldren live, creates an attitude to them which I find unhealthy. A colleague of mine recently returned from a holiday in the States. On the whole, he liked the country and enjoyed his holiday, but, as a Father of two young sons, he was appalled that you could just walk into a High Street store and buy a gun :shrug: I guess that whole culture is impossible to understand for people bought up in places where you are generally taught to believe that guns are evil and kill people, and are to be avoided at all costs.

What happened in Virginia was tragic, and my heart goes out to the young people involved, and to their bereaved families and friends. As I said before, there is no doubt that a crazy person can always get hold of a gun if they want to badly enough (wherever they live), and no laws will eradicate that kind of incident completely. But in my opinion, the fact that guns are so easy to obtain in the States surely has some corrolation to the fact that they do seem to be so many school/college/campus tragedies there, whereas in somewhere like the UK there has only ever been one (Dunblane in 1996). I wonder how many more innocent kids will die before people realise these weapons of death should be banned from the streets? To me, in a civilised, law-abiding country, there should be no need for ordinary families to keep lethal weapons in their homes - just seems crazy to me.
 

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F***ing have it
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Easy gun access + culture of lack of respect to minorities ("nerds","gays","chinesse") + pressure to be "sucessful" ("loser","bullies","famous","SVU") =U.S. shootings
 

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There are many nations where this type of shootings are worse then U.S. They are in developing nations like Brazil.
The type of shootings that happen here are totally different though. They are mostly related to poverty, drug traffic, criminal youth gangs and the kind of stuff you would expect from a third world country. Here, you don't see massacres like that in an university or in a private school. Here, to get a gun legally you have to go under several tests and match many conditions that are required. Needless to say, the vast majority of guns that end up generating deaths here haven't been legally purchased.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
The type of shootings that happen here are totally different though. They are mostly related to poverty, drug traffic, criminal youth gangs and the kind of stuff you would expect from a third world country. Here, you don't see massacres like that in an university or in a private school. Here, to get a gun legally you have to go under several tests and match many conditions that are required. Needless to say, the vast majority of guns that end up generating deaths here haven't been legally purchased.
yes, we all know most of the gun crime in the US comes from school shootings!!

in the US, most gun crime comes from the drug war...
Everyone is missing two key points:

1. Has banning guns worked in other countries? no, againn the most recent example i sthe UK, they banned guns, and crime shot up, gun crime even went up, lmao

A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm
check first link, for crime figures which also rose after the gun ban...


2. Would banning guns eliminate the demand for guns and their availability? hell no.

just like with drugs, you can get them pretty easily, all banning guns would do is create a black market it certianly wouldnt have much of an impact on demand for guns, if people want them, they could still get them.


Having said this, why make a policy that does not work and if anything would only deter law abiding citizens from owning guns?
 
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