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okay the australian open was the neglected slam back in the 70s and 80s. john macenroe himself said that back when he was playing, the madison square garden(masters?) was more important; the AO actually even paid him guarantees to appear, the facility was second-rate, most of the best players skipped the event because it was during their offseason/xmas time.

if that's the case, LETS NOT INCLUDE THE AO in our list of greats. its not fair to the older generation. as such, i have created a list of greatest of all time without counting their AO wins. with that, lets see who has fattened up their grand slam counts and who has not; lets see the list of goats on a more even judging field.

Pete Sampras 14 - 2 = 12 grand slams
Roy Emerson 12 - 6 = 6
Rod Laver 11 - 3 = 8
Bjorn Borg 11 - 0 = 11
Roger Federer 11 - 3 = 8
Bill Tilden 10 - 0 = 10
Ivan Lendl 8 - 2 = 6
Jimmy Connors 8 - 1 = 7
Ken Rosewall 8 - 4 = 4
Andre Agassi 8 - 4 = 4
John McEnroe 7 - 0 = 7
Mats Wilander 7 - 3 = 4
Boris Becker 6 - 2 = 4
Stefan Edberg 6 - 2 = 4

Now here's the list without AOs. Some players of course come out unfavorably esp. those of recent times but its not fair for current players to get an extra slam opportunity each year (so thats like at least 10) to pad their counts. its ordered by grand slams won.

Pete Sampras 12
Bjorn Borg 11
Bill Tilden 10
Rod Laver 8
Roger Federer 8
John McEnroe 7
Jimmy Connors 7
Ivan Lendl 6
Roy Emerson 6
Ken Rosewall 4
Andre Agassi 4
Mats Wilander 4
Stefan Edberg 4
Boris Becker 4

i believe this list has balanced out the grand slam count and the judging field. i also believe this list has held up well when evaluating GOATs as you wont see agassi or becker at the top but guys like sampras, federer, laver and borg are.
 

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You should include the Aussies. They've been legit for almost 20 years now. The draws are as deep as for any of the majors now.

What you could do, however, is add masters cups to players' totals from the mid-70s up to and including, let's say 1985 (the last year the Aussie was held in December).

This makes things much more interesting. The year-ending championships was a big event in the 70s and 80s, although it only gathered the top-rated players.
 

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yes, the Masters was big, then Lendl and Mcenroe would be more up there.
 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_Masters_Cup

Just purely for fun.

Connors gets 8+1=9

McEnroe gets 7+3=10

Borg gets 11+2=13

Lendl gets 8+4=12 (I didn't include his win in 1987, but perhaps I should - not sure .. I'm assuming the Aussie took over in 87 .. judge for yourself)

Of course, this is all very flawed - at times players boycotted these events, like in 1978, if memory serves (that allowed Mac to win his first).
 

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okay the australian open was the neglected slam back in the 70s and 80s. john macenroe himself said that back when he was playing, the madison square garden(masters?) was more important; the AO actually even paid him guarantees to appear, the facility was second-rate, most of the best players skipped the event because it was during their offseason/xmas time.

if that's the case, LETS NOT INCLUDE THE AO in our list of greats. its not fair to the older generation. as such, i have created a list of greatest of all time without counting their AO wins. with that, lets see who has fattened up their grand slam counts and who has not; lets see the list of goats on a more even judging field.

Pete Sampras 14 - 2 = 12 grand slams
Roy Emerson 12 - 6 = 6
Rod Laver 11 - 3 = 8

Bjorn Borg 11 - 0 = 11
Roger Federer 11 - 3 = 8
Bill Tilden 10 - 0 = 10
Ivan Lendl 8 - 2 = 6
Jimmy Connors 8 - 1 = 7
Ken Rosewall 8 - 4 = 4
Andre Agassi 8 - 4 = 4

John McEnroe 7 - 0 = 7
Mats Wilander 7 - 3 = 4
Boris Becker 6 - 2 = 4
Stefan Edberg 6 - 2 = 4

~~~~~~11/14 greatest players of alltime won AO:p

Now here's the list without AOs. Some players of course come out unfavorably esp. those of recent times but its not fair for current players to get an extra slam opportunity each year (so thats like at least 10) to pad their counts. its ordered by grand slams won.

Pete Sampras 12
Bjorn Borg 11
Bill Tilden 10
Rod Laver 8
Roger Federer 8
John McEnroe 7
Jimmy Connors 7
Ivan Lendl 6
Roy Emerson 6
Ken Rosewall 4
Andre Agassi 4
Mats Wilander 4
Stefan Edberg 4
Boris Becker 4

i believe this list has balanced out the grand slam count and the judging field. i also believe this list has held up well when evaluating GOATs as you wont see agassi or becker at the top but guys like sampras, federer, laver and borg are.

The only years AO`s standing as a Slam was under threat was the brief period from 1976-82.. yes for 6-years there it was shaky.. But AO has a 102-year history & many of the finest have won including most of the players on your list~~ so you undermine your own argument by presenting their AO winning stats:p


Sorry you can`t just wipe out 102-years of Slam history for the sake of a few bad years, to make the stats look better for your man McEnroe;)

#Is McEnroe bribing you to write posts on his behalf because he`s bitter he didn`t win more slams..:confused:
Tell me why wasn`t McEnroe good enough to win AO on grass in 83 & 85 [he showed up & lost]~~ despite being the best player in the World at the time & especially on grass..
McEnroe is bitter that players like Federer~~ who are more professional tha Bad Mac are winning heaps more slams;)
Mac got 7-Slams & that`s all he deserves;)



AO`s 102-year roll of honour:
1905 Rodney Heath Arthur Curtis 4-6 6-3 6-4 6-4
1906 Anthony Wilding Francis Fisher 6-0 6-4 6-4
1907 Horace Rice Harry Parker 6-3 6-4 6-4
1908 Fred Alexander Alfred Dunlop 3-6 3-6 6-0 6-2 6-3
1909 Anthony Wilding Ernie Parker 6-1 7-5 6-2
1910 Rodney Heath Horace Rice 6-4 6-3 6-2
1911 Norman Brookes Horace Rice 6-1 6-2 6-3
1912 Cecil Parke Alfred Beamish 3-6 6-3 1-6 6-1 7-5
1913 Ernie Parker Harry Parker 2-6 6-1 6-3 6-2
1914 Arthur O'Hara Wood Gerald Patterson 6-4 6-3 5-7 6-1
1915 Gordon Lowe Horace Rice 4-6 6-1 6-1 6-4
1916-18 no competition (World War I)
1919 Algernon Kingscote Eric Pockley 6-4 6-0 6-3
1920 Pat O'Hara Wood Ron Thomas 6-3 4-6 6-8 6-1 6-3
1921 Rhys Gemmell Alf Hedeman 7-5 6-1 6-4
1922 James Anderson Gerald Patterson 6-0 3-6 3-6 6-3 6-2
1923 Pat O'Hara Wood Bert St John 6-1 6-1 6-3
1924 James Anderson Bob Schlesinger 6-3 6-4 3-6 5-7 6-3
1925 James Anderson Gerald Patterson 11-9 2-6 6-2 6-3
1926 John Hawkes Jim Willard 6-1 6-3 6-1
1927 Gerald Patterson John Hawkes 3-6 6-4 3-6 18-16 6-3
1928 Jean Borotra Jack Cummings 6-4 6-1 4-6 5-7 6-3
1929 John Gregory Bob Schlesinger 6-2 6-2 5-7 7-5
1930 Gar Moon Harry Hopman 6-3 6-1 6-3
1931 Jack Crawford Harry Hopman 6-4 6-2 2-6 6-1
1932 Jack Crawford Harry Hopman 4-6 6-3 3-6 6-3 6-1
1933 Jack Crawford Keith Gledhill 2-6 7-5 6-3 6-2
1934 Fred Perry Jack Crawford 6-3 7-5 6-1
1935 Jack Crawford Fred Perry 2-6 6-4 6-4 6-4
1936 Adrian Quist Jack Crawford 6-2 6-3 4-6 3-6 9-7
1937 Vivian McGrath John Bromwich 6-3 1-6 6-0 2-6 6-1
1938 Don Budge John Bromwich 6-4 6-2 6-1
1939 John Bromwich Adrian Quist 6-4 6-1 6-3
1940 Adrian Quist Jack Crawford 6-3 6-1 6-2
1941-45 no competition (World War II)
1946 John Bromwich Dinny Pails 5-7 6-3 7-5 3-6 6-2
1947 Dinny Pails John Bromwich 4-6 6-4 3-6 7-5 8-6
1948 Adrian Quist John Bromwich 6-4 3-6 6-3 2-6 6-3
1949 Frank Sedgman John Bromwich 6-3 6-2 6-2
1950 Frank Sedgman Ken McGregor 6-3 6-4 4-6 6-1
1951 Dick Savitt Ken McGregor 6-3 2-6 6-3 6-1
1952 Ken McGregor Frank Sedgman 7-5 12-10 2-6 6-2
1953 Ken Rosewall Mervyn Rose 6-0 6-3 6-4
1954 Mervyn Rose Rex Hartwig 6-2 0-6 6-4 6-2
1955 Ken Rosewall Lew Hoad 9-7 6-4 6-4
1956 Lew Hoad Ken Rosewall 6-4 3-6 6-4 7-5
1957 Ashley Cooper Neale Fraser 6-3 9-11 6-4 6-2
1958 Ashley Cooper Malcolm Anderson 7-5 6-3 6-4
1959 Alex Olmedo Neale Fraser 6-1 6-2 3-6 6-3
1960 Rod Laver Neale Fraser 5-7 3-6 6-3 8-6 8-6
1961 Roy Emerson Rod Laver 1-6 6-3 7-5 6-4
1962 Rod Laver Roy Emerson 8-6 0-6 6-4 6-4
1963 Roy Emerson Ken Fletcher 6-3 6-3 6-1
1964 Roy Emerson Fred Stolle 6-3 6-4 6-2
1965 Roy Emerson Fred Stolle 7-9 2-6 6-4 7-5 6-1
1966 Roy Emerson Arthur Ashe 6-4 6-8 6-2 6-3
1967 Roy Emerson Arthur Ashe 6-4 6-1 6-4
1968 Bill Bowrey Juan Gisbert 7-5 2-6 9-7 6-4
1969 Rod Laver Andrés Gimeno 6-3 6-4 7-5
1970 Arthur Ashe Dick Crealy 6-4 9-7 6-2
1971 Ken Rosewall Arthur Ashe 6-1 7-5 6-3
1972 Ken Rosewall Malcolm Anderson 7-6 6-3 7-5
1973 John Newcombe Onny Parun 6-3 6-7 7-5 6-1
1974 Jimmy Connors Phil Dent 7-6 6-4 4-6 6-3
1975 John Newcombe Jimmy Connors 7-5 3-6 6-4 7-5
1976 Mark Edmondson John Newcombe 6-7 6-3 7-6 6-1
1977 [Jan] Roscoe Tanner Guillermo Vilas 6-3 6-3 6-3
1977 [Dec] Vitas Gerulaitis John Lloyd 6-3 7-6 5-7 3-6 6-2
1978 Guillermo Vilas John Marks 6-4 6-4 3-6 6-3
1979 Guillermo Vilas John Sadri 7-6 6-3 6-2
1980 Brian Teacher Kim Warwick 7-5 7-6 6-3
1981 Johan Kriek Steve Denton 6-2 7-6 6-7 6-4
1982 Johan Kriek Steve Denton 6-3 6-3 6-2
1983 Mats Wilander Ivan Lendl 6-1 6-4 6-4
1984 Mats Wilander Kevin Curren 6-7 6-4 7-6 6-2
1985 Stefan Edberg Mats Wilander 6-4 6-3 6-3
1986 no competition (date change from Dec to Jan)
1987 Stefan Edberg Pat Cash 6-3 6-4 3-6 5-7 6-3
1988 Mats Wilander Pat Cash 6-3 6-7 3-6 6-1 8-6
1989 Ivan Lendl Miloslav Mečíř 6-2 6-2 6-2
1990 Ivan Lendl Stefan Edberg 4-6 7-6 5-2 RET
1991 Boris Becker Ivan Lendl 1-6 6-4 6-4 6-4
1992 Jim Courier Stefan Edberg 6-3 3-6 6-4 6-2
1993 Jim Courier Stefan Edberg 6-2 6-1 2-6 7-5
1994 Pete Sampras Todd Martin 7-6 6-4 6-4
1995 Andre Agassi Pete Sampras 4-6 6-1 7-6 6-4
1996 Boris Becker Michael Chang 6-2 6-4 2-6 6-2
1997 Pete Sampras Carlos Moyá 6-2 6-3 6-3
1998 Petr Korda Marcelo Ríos 6-2 6-2 6-2
1999 Yevgeny Kafelnikov Thomas Enqvist 4-6 6-0 6-3 7-6
2000 Andre Agassi Yevgeny Kafelnikov 3-6 6-3 6-2 6-4
2001 Andre Agassi Arnaud Clément 6-4 6-2 6-2
2002 Thomas Johansson Marat Safin 3-6 6-4 6-4 7-6(4)
2003 Andre Agassi Rainer Schüttler 6-2 6-2 6-1
2004 Roger Federer Marat Safin 7-6(3) 6-4 6-2
2005 Marat Safin Lleyton Hewitt 1-6 6-3 6-4 6-4
2006 Roger Federer Marcos Baghdatis 5-7 7-5 6-0 6-2
2007 Roger Federer Fernando González 7-6(2) 6-4 6-4



RED~~ indicates Open ERA
 

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Nastase loved these events, btw. The round robin format took a lot of pressure off him, as sudden death seemed to work against his mentality. He likes the comfort of being able to lose and still be able to win a championship.

He won three in a row.
 

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You should include the Aussies. They've been legit for almost 20 years now. The draws are as deep as for any of the majors now.

What you could do, however, is add masters cups to players' totals from the mid-70s up to and including, let's say 1985 (the last year the Aussie was held in December).

This makes things much more interesting. The year-ending championships was a big event in the 70s and 80s, although it only gathered the top-rated players.


You can`t put the Masters on the same level as AO~~ even in the late 1970s when AO was at it`s weakest;)

Remembering that at the Masters it`s Round Robin until the SF stage, so you can afford to lose a match & still win the event~~ which has happened many many times..
Sorry a RR Masters type event will never come close the the importance of winning a Slam:p


Anyway if you really insist on adding Masters then:


##Pete Sampras has 19-Slams
**Roger Federer has 14-Slams
##Bjorn Borg has 13-Slams
**Ivan Lendl has 13-Slams
##Boris Becker has 11-Slams
**John McEnroe has 10-Slams
##Andre Agassi has 9-Slams
**Jimmy Connors has 9-Slams
##Stefan Edberg has 7-Slams
**Mats Wilander has 7-Slams
##John Newcombe has 7-Slams
**Ilie Nastase has 6-Slams
##Guille Vilas has 5-Slams
**Gustavo Kuerten has 4-Slams
##Lleyton Hewitt has 4-Slams<:)
 

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You can`t put the Masters on the same level as AO~~ even in the late 1970s when AO was at it`s weakest;)

Remembering that at the Masters it`s Round Robin until the SF stage, so you can afford to lose a match & still win the event~~ which has happened many many times..
Sorry a RR Masters type event will never come close the the importance of winning a Slam:p


Anyway if you really insist on adding Masters then:

**Lleyton Hewitt has 4-Slams [USO, Wimby, 2xTMC]:cool:
##Pete Sampras has 19-Slams
**Roger Federer has 14-Slams
##Bjorn Borg has 13-Slams
**Ivan Lendl has 13-Slams
##Boris Becker has 11-Slams
**John McEnroe has 10-Slams
##Andre Agassi has 9-Slams
**Jimmy Connors has 9-Slams
##Stefan Edberg has 7-Slams
**Mats Wilander has 7-Slams
A few things:

1) My post was all for fun

2) I think that the Masters only surpassed the Aussie in importance for slightly more than a decade between early-to-mid 70s to mid-80s.

3) I realize the problem with the Masters' qualifying system, but it truly was the fourth biggest event for a number of years, while Aussie certainly wasn't .. we can also look at some events like Philly (big for a while), Dallas (only the top eight seeds if memory serves) and perhaps Rome circa 1972 (128-man field)/Wembley/Boston - depending on the years. The masters was probably the most consistently popular and prestigious event outside of the three majors for a good number of years.
 

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A few things:

1) My post was all for fun

2) I think that the Masters only surpassed the Aussie in importance for slightly more than a decade between early-to-mid 70s to mid-80s.

3) I realize the problem with the Masters' qualifying system, but it truly was the fourth biggest event for a number of years, while Aussie certainly wasn't .. we can also look at some events like Philly (big for a while), Dallas (only the top eight seeds if memory serves) and perhaps Rome circa 1972 (128-man field)/Wembley/Boston - depending on the years. The masters was probably the most consistently popular and prestigious event outside of the three majors for a good number of years.


That`s OK my post was for fun too:D

Anyway I`d say that Rome is the closest we have to a 5th-Slam;) ~~ simply because of the history & respect it`s given..
Even players who hate clay & skip Monte Carlo & Hamburg normally show up for Rome:cool:

The Italian Open should always be given more prestige value than TMC or the other AMS events..;)
 

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That`s OK my post was for fun too:D

Anyway I`d say that Rome is the closest we have to a 5-Slam;) ~~ simply because of the history & respect it`s given..
Even players who hate clay & skip Monte Carlo & Hamburg normally show up for Rome:cool:

The Italian Open should always be given more prestige value than TMC or the other AMS events..;)
Americans show up in Rome because the clay plays fast, but that's another story.
 

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Well that was clearly AOs lowest moment:sad:

Anway Vilas & Lendl still showed up for AO that year~~ they simply weren`t up to the task:(
No way. 1982 was the lowest moment :eek:

At least 1980 had Vilas, Lendl, and Noah

1982? :tape:
 

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You simply can't take away Slams from players who won them in a competitive era. Pete, Fed, Lendl, Agassi all won the AO facing the smae type of competiton that they would face in other slams.
 

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this thread is so ridiculous yet the topic starter tries to make it all serious lol. :haha: How can you not include the AO? :haha:
 

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Because it was called a garbage slam?
Because it was so late that nobody bothered to show there?

Every top player that ever lived [Open Era] has played AO:p
So it`s a case of STFU [Shut The .... Up] for you pal:(
Of course some players skipped it more than they should have in the late 1970s:sad:
Bjorn Borg was the wost offender~~ but even he showed up once!

Every top player within the last 25-years has played AO atleast 5-times!!!
No seeded player has voluntarily skipped AO since 1994:p

"Nobody bothered":confused:~~~ show me proof;)

"it was called a garbage slam"~~~ show me a quote of a player saying that:confused:
 

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The draw sizes at the Australian Open during the open era:
1969-1971 - 48
1972 - 50
1973 - 56
1974-1981 - 64
1982-1987 - 96
1988-Present - 128
 
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