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“A pro tennis team costs a fortune”: Gilles Simon on money distribution in pro tennis

From the print edition of l’Équipe April 7, 2015. Interview by Vincent Cognet.

“A pro tennis team costs a fortune,” – Gilles Simon, vice-president of the ATP Players’ Council, says what he thinks about the the money distribution in tennis and the difficulty of balancing a three-tiered tour.

Does the pro tour have different tiers?

“I’d say it has three tiers: there are those who make a lot, those who make enough to live on, and those who are still investing. It doesn’t shock me that there are three tiers. The question is: at which tier do we want to point fingers? Everyone agrees that the ATP number 1000 shouldn’t make a living.”

Why not?

Because it’s not professional. Every player will give you a different number: one will say the top 200 deserve to earn a living, another the top 300. The only certainty is that there’ll always be a three-tiered tour.

Unless it’s changed in a way that everyone can make a living!

There are more than 2000 guys on the ATP tour. That would be difficult. Of course, I’m in favour of the maximum number of players being able to make a living. But what I find more shocking is that there’s too big a gap between players at the same category of tournament.

Which means?

The best in the world travel with their coach [sometimes two], their stringer, their doctor, sometimes their hitting partner. On the other hand, you have number 80 in the world who gets there without being able to afford a coach. Those two types of players face each other in the first round of a Grand Slam. To me that shouldn’t be possible. That’s what I was teasing Roger [Federer] with: “Under these conditions, isn’t it a little easier to win?” It’s even worse on the women’s circuit. By not offering enough money, they don’t have a chance to train and improve. So, obviously, the best, who are already stronger, will stay the strongest! They changed that by getting more prize money for the first rounds of a Grand Slam. To clarify, that pays for your coach.

What have you done for the “second tier”, meaning the qualie players?

We haven’t forgotten those who are ranked between 100 and 300. Everyone says that we should increase the Challenger prize money. OK, but how do you do that? In ten years, from 2007 to 2017, their funding has already doubled. The paradox is that we can demand that the Grand Slams double their prize money (which is already huge), but can’t do anything about a Challenger.

Why?

Because a Grand Slam generates enormous revenue and a Challenger generates none. Because the players ranked between 100 and 300 generate none. So, logically, the same thing applies to them that applies to a world number 80: how to train and improve. We’ve increased the qualie prize money for Slams 120% in four years. In four years, you’ll make the same for the last round of qualifications as you did for the first round of the draw.

Does doubling the prize money for each round made make sense?

Doubling for each round is too much. That’s my own personal opinion. The general feeling in the locker room is that they agree with that. But, should a guy who wins a Slam earn twice what someone who makes the final does? We can discuss that ..

Why doesn’t the system change at the Futures level?

Guys competing there aren’t considered professionals. They’re considered to be players who are investing in their futures. Most importantly, we, the ATP, can’t do anything – it’s run by the ITF. We have zero hold, zero power with Futures. I love my sport, I want there to be competition, I fight for that, but I see how difficult it is.

Why is dividing the money differently so difficult?

If you function like a business, you base yourself on the ratio of highest paid to lowest paid. I know for example that Gilbert [Ysern, Director General of the French Federation of Tennis] wants to reduce it to 1:80. To clarify, that the winner of a Slam earns 80 times what the first round loser earns. Today, the Indian Wells winner earns 150 times what a guy who loses in the first round earns. For the tournament directors the logic is: “I want the big cheque at the end.”

Why not put a bit more money into the Challengers?

First of all, it’s already done. Next, we, the players, have already looked at taking, say, 3% of the profits of a Masters 1000 and put them into a small tournament.

And?

And now the ball is in the tournaments’ court.

OK, lets ask the question in a different way: are the top 100 players ready to give up some of their prize money to subsidise the lesser tours?

I may be wrong, but I’d say no. I know this will cause some screaming, but the players reckon that the Masters 1000’s make too much money compared to what they give us. The Slams were reproached for the same reason, though to a lesser extent. Everyone is interested in how much money the players make. No one talks about who’s pocketing the money at the end. Because no-one knows who that is. So, if you have to find money, the players will tell you that’s who should give to the Challengers.

There’s always a worry there …

I sometimes have a problem with players who ask for more money than they generate. Is it in our tour’s interests, seen as a whole, that those guys make more money? I’m pointing out that I use the same reasoning for the women’s tour and for doubles. It’s more of a general reflection than simply a question of money for the rich and the poor.

There isn’t a single player ranked outside the 100 in the world represented on the Players’ Council.That’s a clearly elitist composition …

I agree 200% in theory. We could take a doubles representative and give it to someone outside the 100. And then, what do we talk about on the Players’ council? The calendar, prize money for the ATP 250’s, 500’s, and 1000’s …Things that don’t directly concern them.

So you’re not the Players’ Council, you’re the Top 100 Council. And you only look at the problems that concern you.


-We’re the council for the Top 100 because we’re the council for the tour. Because, today, the tour is the ATP 250’s, the ATP 500’s and the Masters 1000. In fact, there is a Challengers section. I went there. We talked for two hours about that. Me, I say: instead of talking about prize money which, in any case, isn’t generated, let’s talk more about the expenses.That might move things along a bit. The only thing we can do is to make the transition between the three worlds less distinct, more fluid. A pro structure costs a fortune. It cost me 250,000 Euros last year. That’s for a coach, a physical trainer for around 20 weeks and a kinesiologist from time to time. If a guy who is 50 in the world had my structure, he’d be not far from earning zero.

Translated by MAN

https://tennistranslations.wordpres...es-simon-on-money-distribution-in-pro-tennis/
Always nice to read an in-depth interview with one of the few insightful players on tour.
 

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Such an intelligent man. Always nice to see a player speak his mind and tell the world the honest-but-unsexy reality that so many others won't even acknowledge.
 

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What I love is he isn't afraid to question do the guys on the challenger tour who don't generate money deserve to make more money? It is like singers who don't sell out 500 seat venues saying I should be paid more when they aren't bringing in the income in the first place.

That has always been Gilles issue with equal pay that the women don't bring in equal profits and bums on seats.

At what point do the top men stop subsidising everyone else?
 

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Yep, good interview from him as usual. The main idea is what we already knew though, that is that tennis is a rough sport, even "cruel". Top 10 players can get rich from it while the rest until top 100 are making a living (more or less) but for the rest is extremely difficult

Of course I mean it's tough if you want to evolve but I'm sure there are players out there who are satisfied with their status of "challenger players" and they are aware that that level is their maximum they can reach so they might feel satisfied with what they earn in that level so they're not willing to make extra expenses
 

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Simon is by far the most intelligent guy on tour. Great interview as usual.
this.

The guy speaks so much sense, he's a born leader you can tell. Just don't make me watch his game. :devil:
 

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"It cost me 250,000 Euros last year. That’s for a coach, a physical trainer for around 20 weeks and a kinesiologist from time to time. If a guy who is 50 in the world had my structure, he’d be not far from earning zero."

It takes Fed less than two days to make €250,000. :haha:

Seriously, the inequality in tennis is a joke. I mean, it's a joke in football or F1 as well, but I think it's nowhere near as bad as in tennis. Props to the major sports leagues in America with their draft systems, salary caps and what not. Maybe it's only a system to make sure that every billionaire owner gets his fair share, but it's a good way to keep it competitive nonetheless (the NFL is a prime example imo).

Also, this isn't only about money, coaches etc. This is also about basic stuff like: practice time during a tournament (how long? on which court?), hotel rooms & tickets for your family/friends/entourage you don't even have to pay for, etc.
High-seeded players & stars always get the deluxe treatment, in addition to the actual prize money.

I think a modern society would immediately collapse if it was structured like today's tennis circuit.
 

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Good interview, however not so sure about this part:

The best in the world travel with their coach [sometimes two], their stringer, their doctor, sometimes their hitting partner. On the other hand, you have number 80 in the world who gets there without being able to afford a coach. Those two types of players face each other in the first round of a Grand Slam. To me that shouldn’t be possible. That’s what I was teasing Roger [Federer] with: “Under these conditions, isn’t it a little easier to win?” It’s even worse on the women’s circuit. By not offering enough money, they don’t have a chance to train and improve. So, obviously, the best, who are already stronger, will stay the strongest! They changed that by getting more prize money for the first rounds of a Grand Slam. To clarify, that pays for your coach.
I get his point, but Federer didn't always have a huge team around him, nor did Djokovic and many others - they were once top 80 and still made it to top 10. Even Troicki was like one or to matches away from top 10.
 

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The only problem is I don't see solutions coming out of his mouth, just what if's.

Essentially, that is what the player's council is about. Talk a lot, and make progress at a snail's pace.
 

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^

I don't think that's a fair criticism. He should never come out with solutions in public, those are recognized problems. Now politics comes into the place and behind the close door compromises and give-and-takes are offered and hopefully a common ground can be found.

Anything he says concrete could be easily interpreted as him trying to push agenda behind other's back(s).
 

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This is one of the few interviews with tennis players ever that I've read that have been truly worthwhile from start to finish.
 

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What I love is he isn't afraid to question do the guys on the challenger tour who don't generate money deserve to make more money? It is like singers who don't sell out 500 seat venues saying I should be paid more when they aren't bringing in the income in the first place.
That's a great example. Tennis players know what they're getting into if they realize they're not good enough for the top 100 they should stop and look for another job of continue for the love of the game and not expect money to fall from the sky. The lower ranked players don't generate revenue so the inequality in pay is not unfair.
NBA players make from 400k to 24 million dollars. That huge difference is explained by their level and star power. Are people going to buy jerseys and match tickets to watch Jason Smith or KD? the D-League for the NBA can be considered like the CH tour in tennis. D-League players earn from 13k to 25k per year that's it. They're very good basketball players but not good enough or weren't lucky to get a chance.
The same goes for swimming and other sports where there are a few stars who make good earnings but many others who can't make a living from their sport.
 

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I sometimes have a problem with players who ask for more money than they generate. Is it in our tour’s interests, seen as a whole, that those guys make more money? I’m pointing out that I use the same reasoning for the women’s tour and for doubles. It’s more of a general reflection than simply a question of money for the rich and the poor.
If that's the case, give 85% (or more) of everything the tour generates to the top 3. Simon himself would be making about 50 cents (and I like watching him play).

Hell, might as well just run the tour like the Champions Tour and have the top few guys barnstorm cities.
 

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That's a great example. Tennis players know what they're getting into if they realize they're not good enough for the top 100 they should stop and look for another job of continue for the love of the game and not expect money to fall from the sky. The lower ranked players don't generate revenue so the inequality in pay is not unfair.
NBA players make from 400k to 24 million dollars. That huge difference is explained by their level and star power. Are people going to buy jerseys and match tickets to watch Jason Smith or KD? the D-League for the NBA can be considered like the CH tour in tennis. D-League players earn from 13k to 25k per year that's it. They're very good basketball players but not good enough or weren't lucky to get a chance.
The same goes for swimming and other sports where there are a few stars who make good earnings but many others who can't make a living from their sport.
In that case it's ok as teamsports players don't have extra expenses. But in tennis if you want to improve you need more money.

The question should not be who deserves what? It should be what money distribution contributes the best to the health and the quality of the tennis being played.
 
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