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y_s said:
Doesn't it look like we are having a generation of N(obodies), N(on-greats) these days?

Overhyped new balls do not perform as expected. The only one of them who more or less met expectation is Hewitt, but it looks like he is heading into some crisis as well. Safin can't get back on track. Ferrero looked promising at some Slams , but always finds the right time for a meltdown. Federer's mind and game is elsewhere. Sampras and Agassi play much less impressive tennis than they played 2-3 years ago, yet they won last two Slams. It starts more and more looking like this generation simply doesn't want. Previously, at any given time there were at least 3-4 active players who could be considered one of greats. But with Courier and Boris retired, we are left with two remaining dynosaurs and pretty much nobody after them. It is not their great form that keeps Agassi and Sampras from retiring. It's just that the form of whole tour is degrading quicker than the game of Andre and Pete is degrading with age. After they retire we could easily be looking into one-slam-wonder-fest for few more years.

Who could stop that? I hate to say that, but the only one from contemporary youngs that seems to be able to combine a tennis talent, physical power and mental determination to become a great player could be Roddick.
Y S, I COMPLETE AGREE with you, but as you will soon realize, our opinions of the failure of NBs is a minority on this board.

It's also funny to me that posters who say, "What are you talking about? Johannsens and Costas of the world, the journeymen of the ATP, they ARE GREAT for tennis" are the same ones with pictures of FERRERO, Safin, Roger, Haas in their messages. Hmmmm....
 

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Lee said:
Well, between the old balls (over 30) and the new balls, we do have active players like Kuerten (26), Moya (26), Johansson (27) and Costa (27) who did manage to win a Slam or 2.

Honestly, I don't think saying Federer, Ferrero and/or Safin consider at the same talent level as Agassi is exageration. They probably don't have the mental toughness and/or confidence that Agassi has right now but Agassi didn't have them too at 22.
Sorry, Johannsen and Costa were considered journeyman on the ATP and not potential stars. Thus ,the disappointment of the Aussie Open officials over last year's tourney.

I agree with your second point.
 

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walee said:
So we should all be compared by the dotcom standard now (get rich fast and young or else you'll be considered a failure)? So by 22 or 23, if you didn't win a slam or multiple slams, you are pretty much doomed and what's the point of carrying on as we see no future in you :rolleyes:. If you see it that way, sure, tennis this generation really sucks and why watch anymore?

Chang won his first slam at 17, ppl started expecting Pete and Andre to do the same and were they not all disappointed that they didn't win a slam at their teens? When they all turn 20, I wonder if ppl say, geez, what the hell happened to those 2 :rolleyes:. And looked at the ladies, like Graf, Seles and Hingis had success at 16 and ppl were laughing at Richard Williams when his daughters didn't make much mark until they are about 19. Now, see who's laughting. I'm glad that I didn't come out to say stupid things and write them off the bet before the Williams made it big.

But I must ask, what's the logic about Roddick? So he did well in AO and have a brilliant match. Did we not see Federer overcame his own nerve and dethroned King Pete on his own backyard back in Wimby 01? Did we not see Safin whose the "nutcase" and almost quitted tennis but the same year beat the still-in-form Sampras in Toronto and USO in 2000? And I recalled that Ferrero was a set down and managed to win the next 2 sets in Rome to win his first ever TMS title against the then claycourt-King Guga in 2001. Besides his epic battle with El Aynaoui in AO, I can't think of any Roddick match which is so remarkable to make you think he is any different from the rest.

Whether Roddick is going to dominate is yet to see and I won't say that he will or won't. But my point is, anyone of these players have their moment when they were able to put things together and win a brilliant match. I don't see why you think Roddick is any better or worse than any of them. I also remembered his meltdown against Sampras in USO, against Rusedski in Wimby and against Arthurs in RG. I won't run to the front and declared that he is not meant to be then. Sure I criticized his past slam performances, but I know it didn't mean that he's no good ever. But just based on AO this year, I won't run to the front to declare he's gonna be the best ever either. So humor me by sharing with us your logic maybe?

I don't see how these New Balls are overhyped. Sure, at 2000, for the sake of the new ATP campaign, they were handpicked as the best among the new generation. And so they are as all of them are Top 10 now. But did someone promise you that one of them will dominate the tennis world? Should they?
Notice that all of the people mentioned in your answer were already tagged as potential stars before they began to win slams?

What's disconcerting is that journeymen are sneaking through as well as two people named Sampras and Agassi. No one else.

It's like if Tathiana Garbin, Barbara Rittner, and Herietta Nagyova won or reached the finals of the last 5 Slams on the women's side, along with Steffi Graf (if she was still playing) and Aranxta-Sanchez Vicario, while the young stars (Williams sisters, Lindsay, Amelie, Hingis, the Belgians) couldn't get it together.
 

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walee said:
Notice that your answer to my post is pretty long, should I feel honored:p ? But what's your point here? So they are potential stars and did I deny that :confused: ? My saying is, give them time to prove themselves or you're just so impatent that you think we should label them as journeyman NOW :confused: ? The depth of ATP is different from the depth of WTA, do you not know?

If you bothered to read the thread, you'll notice that I said I agreed with Y_S.

And as a short (since you seem to get angry over long ones) answer, McEnroe was through winning Slams by the age of 25.
I don't think being young is necessarily an excuse for sucking at Slams.
 

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walee said:
Of course I read the thread, you think I bother to only read your posts :rolleyes: lol . I don't get angry at long ones, I got annoyed by non-sense ones long or short, just so happened that they are produced by you in this thread. I also did not say that give them excuses for being young, I say not to write them off the bet just bcos they still have time. Is my words too complicated for you to understand? So Agassi didn't win his first until he's 22 and won more slams after he turned 29. So should we use McEnroe as the standard or Agassi?
Speaking of nonsense. You better keep your stuff short too:p
 

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TheBoiledEgg said:
:rolleyes: at you guys :p

Who wants to see a slam final between

Safin vs Hewitt/Federer/Ferrero etc
Moya/Ferrero vs Guga/Ferrero/ at RG ???

not just once but repeatedly in slams for next 2-3 yrs or so.
Me! But I guess I can see the other point of view as well, wanting to see other players.

I just thought having an Aussie Open 2002 and French Open 2002 with Marat vs. Potato, Mosquito vs. Guga would have been exciting--more entertaining than what we got.

So, I have a question TBE, since I was a bit to young to follow in the 80s, you didn't enjoy the matches between the players that you mentioned?
 

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Rebecca said:
Rafter didn't win his first slam untill he was 24, and he seems to have done okay for himself.


Well, Rafter was under the "26 rule" that TBE stated.

It will be verrrry interesting to see who does what by that age (not too many Slams in the future, mind you).

Becca, I don't understand quite where you are coming from in this argument.

You seem to play Devil's advocate just for the joy of it.

You sincerely believe Ferrero, et al will eventually win a Slam, no matter what their age?

Or do you not really care who wins, just long as its a different player, as is the consensus?

Just curious.
 

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Sjengster said:
And as for Tennis fool's admittance of being a Williams fan - please! :rolleyes: You richly deserve your own username.
HA! If you attack my User Name with that lame put-down, that really says more about you than me.

Further, resorting to ad hominem attacks really shows your lack of argument.

I rather stick to the facts:

If you don't appreciate what the world's No. 1 and 2 WTA players have done, even if don't really like their game, I wonder if *you* really are a tennis fan.

Serena's ability to win on all surfaces, something only 5 women in the history of tennis have been able to do, and have the mental fortitude to come back from 1/5 in the last set in her semifinal victory--is just extraordinary.

ANY real tennis fan can appreciate that.
 

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Sjengster said:
I really hate the suggestion that Johansson and Costa should be called journeymen just because they're not Top 10
Again, Sjenster, attack me, but I will stick to stripping your argument.

The ATP consensus is that these two are journeyman. NOT because they are out of the Top 10, but they were not picked as the talented young juniors that would have the world watching to see how far their stars would rise.

If you read about tennis at all, you will see that they are called "journeymen" or "average" or "very able" players by coaches, other players, sports writers--heck, even themselves!

NBs are those who displayed exceptional talent early, a la Hewitt and Safin.

The player people are talking about now is Richard Gasquet. He just won the junior FO and UO and has be targeted as someone to watch in the new few years (his time is not yet, but soon).
 
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