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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
Re: Game-styles: 185 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

Just noticed that Portas is depicted in the picture as one-hander - he played BH with two hands, he's been the last player included to the list. I think no need to change it since he isn't exceptionally important in the list, and used to play BH dropshots a lot holding the racquet in one hand.
 

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Re: Game-styles: 185 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

Gustavo Kuerten is a defender right?
or at least a mix with american school, because as we know he might have been better offensively but he could also engage in some decent long rallies.
 

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Re: Game-styles: 185 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

Good stuff
 

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Re: Game-styles: 185 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

Voo de Legend delivers again :bowdown:
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Re: Game-styles: 185 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

Gustavo Kuerten is a defender right?
or at least a mix with american school, because as we know he might have been better offensively but he could also engage in some decent long rallies.
Right, in a more complex picture:

Kuerten - N'Owners / Defenders
Djokovic & Nadal - Defenders / N'Owners

Not the other way around.

It should be distinguished which group suits better to a player. Kuerten used to get much more points directly after serves. He even served once 47 aces in a match. What's the record for Djodal? I bet 20 max.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Re: Game-styles: 185 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

It really blends in most of the cases floating in different directions, I think for instance:

Ivanisevic: Deceiver-Atomer
Ancic: Deceiver-Balancer
Stepanek: Deceiver-Softer
Martin: Deceiver-N'Owner
Rosset: Deceiver-Defender

Look at Rosset winning the Olympic final '92. His slow backhands playing a few feet behind the baseline have higher net clearance than Nadal's strokes.
 

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Re: Game-styles: 185 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

I don't think that Isner is an all-serve player. Isner main weapon is his serve but he has a decent baseline play compared with other serve players. In my opions he doesn't deserve to be in the same group of Karlovic. But it is hard to put Isner in one baseliner group as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Re: Game-styles: 185 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

I don't think that Isner is an all-serve player. Isner main weapon is his serve but he has a decent baseline play compared with other serve players. In my opions he doesn't deserve to be in the same group of Karlovic. But it is hard to put Isner in one baseliner group as well.
To me (juxtaposing hardcore service records):

Karlovic & Arthurs - Atomers

Isner & J.Johansson - N'Owners/Atomers
 

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Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
Re: Game-styles: 185 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

I've added six players that certainly deserve IMO to be here:

Woodruff, Kulti, Larsson, Srichaphan, Bellucci & Meligeni...
Querrey was doubled.
 

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Re: Game-styles: 185 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

It's true. He's a far better player tactically and technically. Of course, that doesn't make him better overall.
 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
Re: Game-styles: 185 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

It's true. He's a far better player tactically and technically. Of course, that doesn't make him better overall.
When Murray is in his best form, Nadal playing 80% it's 3-6 6-2 6-0 (Tokyo 2011)
When Murray and Djokovic play their best it's 6-4 7-5 6-4 (Wimbly final)

Murray is tactically the most complex player I've ever seen. No-one pays so much attention to details like Murray, it's a two-edged sword though. Sometimes he's overcooked on analytical level - lately it happened in the 10th game vs. Wawrinka.

It's understandable to me Lendl started working with him. Fibak says that Lendl could play a good chess-game not seeing a chessboard.

Murray is a better player than Nadal & Djokovic overall, but he's too moody to be No. 1. He can't play the entire season on 100% like 'Djodal'.

Can you imagine 'Djodal' losing Masters 1000 matches 1-6 5-7 to Bogomolov, 3-6 1-6 to Anderson or 4-6 2-6 to Garcia-Lopez?

Another crucial factor it's Murray's introvertism. It's impossible for Murray to beat Federer like Djokovic did it, playing a FH return winner off the solid 1st serve on MP-down.

Tennis is a complex discipline, you have to be able to find a balance between tactical rigorism and ability to improvise - no-one does it better than Djokovic.

Many different factors have to be composed together, better tactical/technical skills aren't enough to be the best in the world.
 

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Discussion Starter #36 (Edited)
Re: Game-styles: 191 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

Complexification of tennis

I think this is what happens in the Open era in terms of the styles of play...

60s/70s:
wooden racquets (continental grip at all strokes), 1 style - serve-and-volleyers; even Rosewall (slightly taller than O.Rochus) was successfully playing it

70s/80s:
introduction of aluminium racquets, 2 styles - serve-and-volleyers / baseliners; thanks to Borg & Connors many players started using double-handed backhands realizing you can stay on the back of the court because passing opponents with aluminium racquets is easier than with wooden ones (Borg used a wooden one though)

80s/90s:
introduction of graphite racquets, 4 styles - serve-and-volleyers divided into "all-servers" (Becker, Sampras, Ivanisevic) and "classic ones" (McEnroe, Edberg, Rafter), in turn baseliners divided into "hard hitters" (Lendl, Agassi, Courier) and "grinders" (Wilander, Chang, Muster)

90s/00s:
with improved racquets, creating more acute angles became possible which meant it's easier to pass opponents; Federer who grew up idolizing Becker & Edberg and was preparing as a serve-and-volley player, realized the technological transition though, and changed his mindset starting to win matches with a mixture of volley/ground-stroke winners, others follow suit

These changes manifested themselves in this new 4-style terminology:
serve-and-volleyers, all-court players, offensive baseliners, defensive baseliners

My opening post with the suggestion of 8 styles, generally refers to 90s/00s, but it seems the 00s/10s period may be understandable in terms of diversity if we are talking about 16 (?) different game-styles to avoid a confusion that Janowicz & O.Rochus belong to the same group (offensive baseliners - considering current terminology or "N'Owners <No-man's landers>" as I suggested). Even Janowicz & Anderson, who are similarly tall and get most of points from the baseline, play different type of tennis.

Tallest top players:
60/70s: Stan Smith (193 cm, 6'4)
80s/90s: Marc Rosset (201 cm, 6'7)
00s/10s: John Isner (208 cm, 6'9)
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Re: Game-styles: 191 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

hopolymer: If you don't understand - by "play their best" I mean they are both extremely motivated and physically fit, weather conditions aren't a factor - Djokovic can't be a ruler under these circumstances because Murray is technically/tactically better (I'm not saying 'mentally' because it's Djokovic's domain - IMO he's mentally the strongest in the Open era); talking about Djokovic's fatigue after 5-set win over Del Potro makes no sense since Djokovic won back-to-back matches under more demanding conditions vs. Murray (4:50) & Nadal (5:53) - Melbourne '12

Anyway don't expect a reply from you since you're on my ignore list already.
 

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Re: Game-styles: 191 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

talking about Djokovic's fatigue after 5-set win over Del Potro makes no sense since Djokovic won back-to-back matches under more demanding conditions vs. Murray (4:50) & Nadal (5:53) - Melbourne '12
because obviously a player in 2013 is going to have better fitness than in 2012. It only makes logical sense right? :worship:

The Wimbledon final was under the heat of the afternoon. It's always going to be tougher to prepare your body for an afternoon final than a final like in AO 2012. Regardless, if you compare the level of play in the Wimby final to that AO semi, you'd find that both Nole and Andy were playing much better tennis during the latter.

But go ahead and ignore me. It clearly shows your maturity level. :rolleyes:
 

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Re: Game-styles: 191 players (2 categories, 8 groups)

Hmmm...I seem to prefer Forwarders.

With all of this talk, the Pokemon Nerd in me now imagines these players of Pokemon with types, and which is weak to which, haha. :lol:
 
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