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Seems like it was just yesterday when France had all the top young guys with Monfils, Simon, Tsonga, Gasquet. Cant believe they are now 32-35. Maybe not as strong as when US had Sampras, Courier, Agassi, Chang, but I thought they would be contenders for many years. Was it the big 3 that stop them from being great? Over hyped?
 

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They‘ve all had fruitful careers winning a combined 50+ titles, good longevity too with over a decade between each of them’s first and most recent title. However, aside from Tsonga who definitely could have grabbed a slam or two without the big 3, the other 3 have glaring limitations to their game and IMO their ceiling would be slam semi in any era barring extraordinary luck. Monfils and Simon both lack reliable weapons while Gasquet‘s FH is usually too weak. They’re just like most promising young players—— Good but didn’t manage to develop a complete all-around game or a huge weapon.
 

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They suck. That's one of the reasons they cheer for Fed, Stan or even Goffin cause their own prospects for winning slams are non-existent. But it's interesting because if you look at the number of players in TOP100 or TOP200 they come off as the best nation @Nepoznati Knez - am I right? On the other hand they've not been able to produce a slam winner for nearly 40 years now.
 

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On the other hand they've not been able to produce a slam winner for nearly 40 years now.
This is as big mindfuck as China never having a Top100 player in the history. I mean FFT is such a big organization with so much tradition with the most prestigeous tournaments in seniors and juniors and with million of tennis academies. They should produce even ONE GS winner just from the pure statistics. OTOH it also shows how big and rare GS titles are.
 

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This is as big mindfuck as China never having a Top100 player in the history. I mean FFT is such a big organization with so much tradition with the most prestigeous tournaments in seniors and juniors and with million of tennis academies. They should produce even ONE GS winner just from the pure statistics. OTOH it also shows how big and rare GS titles are.
It also shows that this particular nation hasn't been adapting to modern athletic tennis. Humbert is a positive step in that modernization/ for the future, not quite good enough . (Tall, athletic, big serve, baseline minded, right mix attacking-defense, solid off both sides kind of player) taller djokovics basically
 

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In France, people usually blame these four players for their mentality: they usually choke during big moments. But a case could be made that they simply lack skills. As far as I'm concerned, I think peak Tsonga and peak Monfils both could have won a slam, if not for the big 3, or with a bit of luck like Cilic.
 

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Pushmon, Clownfils and Gascoke were clearly not good enough, regardless of era, they would have been slamless. Debatable with Clownga, he definitely had the highest peak, both game wise and mentality wise, but even he had glaring weaknesses, his RoS is crap and his BH is also very weak.
 

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GS finals :
Tsonga alone = 1
Monfils+Simon+Gasquet combined = 0

GS semis :
Tsonga alone = 6
Monfils+Simon+Gasquet combined = 5

GS quarters :
Tsonga alone = 15
Monfils+Simon+Gasquet combined = 14

Masters 1000 titles :
Tsonga alone = 2
Monfils+Simon+Gasquet combined = 0

WTF finals :
Tsonga alone = 1
Monfils+Simon+Gasquet combined = 0

Wins over Federer, Nadal & Djokovic :
Tsonga alone = 16
Monfils+Simon+Gasquet combined = 13

I hope this thread is a joke, Tsonga is infinitely better than Monfils, Simon and Gasquet. Please never compare them ever again.
 

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GS finals :
Tsonga alone = 1
Monfils+Simon+Gasquet combined = 0

GS semis :
Tsonga alone = 6
Monfils+Simon+Gasquet combined = 5

GS quarters :
Tsonga alone = 15
Monfils+Simon+Gasquet combined = 14

Masters 1000 titles :
Tsonga alone = 2
Monfils+Simon+Gasquet combined = 0

WTF finals :
Tsonga alone = 1
Monfils+Simon+Gasquet combined = 0

Wins over Federer, Nadal & Djokovic :
Tsonga alone = 16
Monfils+Simon+Gasquet combined = 13

I hope this thread is a joke, Tsonga is infinitely better than Monfils, Simon and Gasquet. Please never compare them ever again.
Good telling stats. Nice work. I agree mostly but do believe a motivsted Clownfils would have achieved the same amount but then again motivation is part of it all and if he dont have it 🤷‍♂️
 

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Monfils is usually motivated against the top guys in Grand Slams and he never beat them. Tsonga has 2 wins over Federer, 1 win over Djokovic and 1 win over Nadal in majors. Add to that 2 victories over the Big 3 at WTF. Different levels. Tsonga used to be elite, Monfils has never been regardless of his motivation.
 

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In France, people usually blame these four players for their mentality: they usually choke during big moments. But a case could be made that they simply lack skills. As far as I'm concerned, I think peak Tsonga and peak Monfils both could have won a slam, if not for the big 3, or with a bit of luck like Cilic.
Jo Wilfried Tsonga is not a choker like the other players of the lot, he has big self belief, backhand and return just not good enough to win a slam. Last player to win a slam with a weak backhand was probably Andy Roddick 16.5 years ago.
 

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They suck. That's one of the reasons they cheer for Fed, Stan or even Goffin cause their own prospects for winning slams are non-existent. But it's interesting because if you look at the number of players in TOP100 or TOP200 they come off as the best nation @Nepoznati Knez - am I right? On the other hand they've not been able to produce a slam winner for nearly 40 years now.
It is indeed a big problem....

And I guess it is a bigger one for FFT.

France has the hugest number of players in top 100 and 200 as you said, France is leading (or second behind Spain) with number of pro tournaments won a year. And it was the same those latest 5 years.
France is a country with maybe 120 players in top 1000.

France is a country where beginning Tennis is easy (lots of venues) and affordable (lots of public venues).

FFT has a lots of delegates in Regions to find potential champions and a lot of regional and national center to give those champions the better means to improve.

Of course it does not work 100%. Marion Bartoli was not selected in those structures.

But main problem is indeed that this system produce good international players able to compete at ATP level but did not produce a very top player.

I read a lot of interviews from FFT guys, and what came from their analyzes is players from this system were overprotected and did not suffer enough and lack killer instinct....

They took exemples from players from small countries that have to leave their families for years to train in Academies or US College....

So they tried other plans, with sending young French players competing in Futures or Challengers in Central or South East Asia, where you have to deal with Tennis but ALSO to deal with external factors.

First squad to enter this process were Moutet Humbert (can not remember if Pouille too but Pouille is a very different case with a more Suomi than French mindset)

French Families also tried different things and begin to send their kids in Academies or College despite it is more expensive.



And BTW lots of French people are partly Spanish, and lots of people here are routing for Nadal before Federer....
 

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Simon's slam record is very poor, just 2 quarter finals, rarely gets past the third round, though lost those 2 quarters to Nadal and Federer
Gasquet made 3 semi's, was knocked out by Federer, Djokovic and Nadal, made 2 other quarters, knocked out by Murray and Federer.
Tsonga made a final, lost to Djokovic, made 5 other semi's, lost to Federer, Djokovic, Murray, Ferrer, Wawrinka (French Open, year he won it) Made 9 other quarter finals, lost to Federer twice, lost to Djokovic twice, Murray twice, Cilic, Wawrinka, Verdasco
Monfils made 2 semi finals, lost to Federer and Djokovic, made 7 other quarter finals, lost to Federer 3 times, Murray, Djokovic, Raonic Berrettini

So from every quarter final, Semi final and final loss in a slam that all four had, 31 times in total, they were knocked out by the big 5 (Federer/Nadal/Novak/Murray/Wawrinka, multiple slam winners), on 26 occasions!

They were not knocked out by nobodies once they got to the last 8, even Cilic won a slam and made 3 finals, Ferrer and Raonic also made a final, only Berrettini and Verdasco stands out as a loss stands out.

So I don't really buy this often peddled myth that French players lack bottle, just unlucky to be in the era they were in.
 

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Tsonga is clearly better than the other 3 but they all had limitations in their games. Tsonga has a weak backhand and bad ROS. Monfils is way too defensive and needs too much time to hit his shots which is why he sucks on fast courts. His mentality is also bad as he just isn’t consistent enough mentally wise to win the big titles. Gasquet’s forehand is cheeks and his ground strokes in general are too loopy and are easily attackable along with the fact that he bends over hard. Simon has no weapons and you need weapons to win big titles.
 

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I'm still convinced that had Monfils converted that MP against Fraud, he would have won against Cilic and washed up Nishikori...
 

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Just because the media pumped up the expectations just because they are French doesn't mean that they were indeed that talented and promising.
 
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