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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So the other shoe dropped in Paris when it comes the spiraling Nadal- and that was in the meekiest of fahion for Rafa..Here is in my opinion 5 things that used to be an unpopular take and has morphed into a true reality for the Spaniard..


* Nadal overall decline officially kicked in Beijing’13--don't be fooled by the wrist and appendicitis..

* Nadal is better HC player than he is on Clay since 2013-- RG’2012 was his last Clay masterpiece.

* Nadal is essentially without an ATP title since RG’14 (Berlocq CHOKING 6-1 TB lead in the weak Buenos Aires SF, notwithstanding)

* Nadal has the worst Serve/ROS combo in the TOP 15

* Nadal is now a borderline mental midget because of this elongated slump.


Discuss.
 

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Facts are facts no?

But cemented facts are opinions no?
 
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I think what I took away from this match was

His lack of foot speed compared to before

Since when could you employ a drop shot tactic that would be successfully all match" on slow clay

Brilliant gameplay from Novak of course
 

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PileDrive is my favourite Nadaltard. He is relentless at kicking Nadal when he's down. :haha:
 

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Some of these things are immeasurable, true.. But we can make an approximation and calls them a fact in this instance..
Facts do not work that way.

And for each of your point that you have stated, I can come up with points that would fit my approximation.

1. Nadal's official decline is debatable. He still made lot of finals after Beijing '13. Some of his matches in 2014 were horrendous and some of his matches in 2015 were far better. I don't know if he has improved from decline in 2014.

2. RG 12 - last masterpiece? He played excellent clay Master series in 2013, if you are considering overall tournaments. If you want a single masterpiece. RG SF '13(5th set was brilliant and in RG 12 Novak won 8 games straight.) He has not played many hard court after his 2013 HC sweep and made finals in 2014 AO. Don't know if that alone makes good enough for a comparison for him better on HC or Clay.

3. ATP title is ATP title. Irrespective of whatever happened. FACT: He has a TITLE!

4. Top 15 seems generous to me.(The number of DF he has made on break points in 2014 alone should throw him out of top 30)

5. He mind is not there on the court most of the time since 2014 AO. That is last legitimate tournament where he played decently well. Otherwise, I agree with you. But still don't know if that makes it a fact.
 

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He's definitely been in decline some time. Regardless of whether he's won or lost his matches), his performances have always been scrappy for some time now. His ability to BS his way through matches seems go be getting worse too if results are to go by...not that I've watched a match of his this year. I've been avoiding him like the plague.
 

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2. RG 12 - last masterpiece? He played excellent clay Master series in 2013, if you are considering overall tournaments. If you want a single masterpiece. RG SF '13(5th set was brilliant and in RG 12 Novak won 8 games straight.) He has not played many hard court after his 2013 HC sweep and made finals in 2014 AO. Don't know if that alone makes good enough for a comparison for him better on HC or Clay.
This. People are kidding themselves if they think that Nadal can play any better than in RG-13 semi-final and it was the match Novak had on his racquet, but lost because of crappy volleys and smashes.

Thank you Mr. Boris Becker, you created a perfect player:yeah:Vajda:hug:

 

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* Nadal is better HC player than he is on Clay since 2013-- RG’2012 was his last Clay masterpiece.

* Nadal is essentially without an ATP title /Final appearance since RG’14 (Berlocq CHOKING 6-1 TB lead in the weak Buenos Aires SF, notwithstanding)

Discuss.
:lol:

No, he is still better on clay. It's actually the only surface who gives him a chance to compete with the top players these days. He was pretty awful yesterday, still managed to make competitive for a while against the best player in the world. Had this match being played on Australian Open, he would've lost 6-2 6-1 6-1.

That was really a choke, but I think he would've won anyway in 3. He lost the 1st set against Berlocq in Brazil Open 2013 and was trailing 3-1 in the final set, yet managed to win 6-3.
 

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The reality is without Buenos Aires, his tourney streak would have been snapped. He's playing ok, at a Cilic or Divatrov class player. A far cry from the top seeds.
 

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The reality is without Buenos Aires, his tourney streak would have been snapped. He's playing ok, at a Cilic or Divatrov class player. A far cry from the top seeds.
i think at this point that even marin and grigor playing their best would beat him
 

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It is called having grip on reality :yeah:
No it's not :lol:

* Nadal overall decline officially kicked in Beijing’13--don't be fooled by the wrist and appendicitis..
AO 2014 was one of his best HC tournaments. Top 5 easily.

* Nadal is better HC player than he is on Clay since 2013-- RG’2012 was his last Clay masterpiece.
Clay is the only surface where he can beat top 10 players. On hard he has lost this year to Berrer, Berdych (spanking), Raonic, Verdasco. And last year to Dolgopolov, Klizan, F. Lopez and Coric.

* Nadal is essentially without an ATP title /Final appearance since RG’14 (Berlocq CHOKING 6-1 TB lead in the weak Buenos Aires SF, notwithstanding)
He won in Buenos Aires and played the final in Madrid.

* Nadal has the worst Serve/ROS combo in the TOP 15
According to the ATP matchfact he has made 68% of the 1st serve in and won 72% behind it. So no.

* Nadal is now a borderline mental midget because of this elongated slump.
I agree here.
 

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He declined late in 2013 but to be fair he was basically peaking for a lot of that year. I'd say he returned to a more "normal" level after that and it was niggling injuries that made last season rocky as his actual form was there for alot of it (Doha, Miami, RG, even Wimbledon).

Since the last layoff though he's definately gone steeply downhill. Reduced stamina, choking leads and failing to serve out sets, almost no ability to play agressive off the ground... I agree that he's been at least as good on HCs for a couple of years now so we'll see how the US HC season goes.
 

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PileDrive is my favourite Nadaltard. He is relentless at kicking Nadal when he's down. :haha:
This. One thousand times this. :worship: ;)

Who needs haters when you have fans like that, eh? ;)
 

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I think everyone is jumping the gun here...Nadal has been abysmal all year, yes...However, once the French Open started, he turned into a different player...Everything seemed to be clicking in his game and he played 4 great matches...I think for the 1st time in his career, the mental part got to Nadal...He had no confidence going against Nole yesterday and didn't believe he could win after that first set. I've never seen that from him before. If you look at the match against Sock, he was ripping his forehand and very confident. We didn't really see that yesterday and that is partly due to Nole. He put so much pressure on Nadal the entire match to play at a level he hasn't played in a year. It was just too tall an order. From what I have seen this tournament, Nadal will be back. The game is still there. He's slower but still has game. He just needs more confidence.
 

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However, once the French Open started, he turned into a different player...Everything seemed to be clicking in his game and he played 4 great matches....
Huh? He played 3 players outside the top 100 and lost a set to the first one in it. It's not like he didn't dominate his opponents in the early rounds of Madrid or Rome either, it doesn't say anything about his actual level which is consistently exposed by the top 5.
 
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