Mens Tennis Forums banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I never understood why people brand Kyrgios as this perfect player, with talent comparable to Federer's. I will assume that talent in this context refers to how much better one could be if he applied himself the way the hard workers of the tour apply themselves. So talent means potential for greatness, right???

Ok, with that out of the way, let's begin our analysis. He is listed as 193cm and 85 kg. So, a relatively tall guy with a light/medium build. Almost ideal for tennis. He should have great but not exceptional movement and a great but not a booming serve right? What we see on court however, is a guy who moves like he got hit by a car before the match. Low top speed, not very explosive when changing directions, quite below average even among guys his height. We have, for example, Zverev and Medvedev who are quite a bit taller than him, yet they move like gazelles compared to Nick. Monfils is the same height as Kyrgios. They are not even in the same universe movement wise. One could argue that with commitment and a good coach, his movement can be fixed. I would tend to agree, but you won't make a 2005 Nadal or Monfils out of him, which is my point.

Ok, maybe movement is not his forte. Let's take a look at his shotmaking. His groundstrokes are odd, a spinny forehand and quite a flat backhand. In neutral rallies, he has a very hard time. He needs to hit the ball as hard as humanly possible to hit winners. Never do we see controlled aggression from him. This can't work, even on grass, because those erros become costly late in the set. You need to have a sustainable game. Ok, maybe his shot selection just isn't there. His dropshots and net game are decent, and we could say he has good feel, but ultimately these elements won't make or break a player, as evidenced by Djokovic and Zverev.

Finally, we get to arguably the most important aspect of a tennis player's game, his head. Mental strength, balls, behaviour when pressured, whatever you want to call it. With the sheer amount of times Kyrgios has had an outburst on court, it's safe to say he isn't a mental giant by any means. If we look closer, he doesn't tend to choke away big leads, he is steady when playing well, but is too easily distracted and is too prone to getting angry than any guy who has ever won a slam. Already, this would suggest that he isn't on that level. And if all that I said earlier wasn't enough, he is 25, which means he has already wasted 2 or 3 years of his prime.

A player who has nothing to fall back on but his serve is still somehow the darling of this forum, people who claim they love tennis, I mean what the hell guys and gals???? Nothing but a glorified servebot who claims he hates tennis because of his fragile ego.

If someone thinks they can convince me otherwise, go for it. Send videos or type it out. I am not attacking anyone, I just want to know what the general consensus is.
 

·
justice for all
Joined
·
16,233 Posts
I agree with most you wrote @Red John but „the darling of MTF”? That ship has sailed long ago...
I think he has a fair share of haters now and the only reason why some people still „like” him is the simple fact he is/was able to beat/push hard the BIG3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I agree with most you wrote @Red John but „the darling of MTF”? That ship has sailed long ago...
I think he has a fair share of haters now and the only reason why some people still „like” him is the simple fact he is/was able to beat/push hard the BIG3.
I think this has more to do with how long he has been inactive. People have "cooled down" from him. Belive me when I say this, his rabid fans will be back as soon as he has any ok result.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,105 Posts
6’4 guys do not move great, some move fairly well but never great like Faker. Monfils is just fast as fuck but he gets wrong footed all the time. Yeah he pretty much is a servebot with trick shot abilities but he’s still awesome to watch and one of my faves easily.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,230 Posts
6’4 guys do not move great, some move fairly well but never great like Faker. Monfils is just fast as fuck but he gets wrong footed all the time. Yeah he pretty much is a servebot with trick shot abilities but he’s still awesome to watch and one of my faves easily.
It's annoying he doesn't want to apply himself fully just because it's unlikely to result in a slam title lel. Would certainly be top ten and regularly trolling the top guys, even if mostly losing. Instead Kygs is resigned to his journeyman status. Sad stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,105 Posts
It's annoying he doesn't want to apply himself fully just because it's unlikely to result in a slam title lel. Would certainly be top ten and regularly trolling the top guys, even if mostly losing. Instead Kygs is resigned to his journeyman status. Sad stuff.
Yeah he definitely has what it takes to be top 10 and was a few spots from that in 2016. He just has too many matches to where something bothers him like the white towel shit and he can’t put full focus in the match and loses to some mug like Edmund.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
824 Posts
His movement is completely undermined by his refusal to put the work in off the court. When he's fit his movement is great for a guy of his height.
The baseline game has declined heavily from his teenage years. Again, it's down to his inability to turn up on the court fit. He hasn't improved any shot since he burst onto the scene; on the contrary, they've declined heavily.
He has great hands for a tall guy, but it's more or less irrelevant due to the regression in all other aspects of the game.
His mentality is the issue: he simply lost all of his already questionable motivation after he beat the big three. It was a case of 'is that it?' As long as he's making good money he couldn't give a shit about being an all time great. The guy cited his foundation as being his main motivation for playing. Maybe there's an element of cowardice there: 'if I don't try I can't lose?' He's a strange cat.
 

·
justice for all
Joined
·
16,233 Posts
His mentality is the issue: he simply lost all of his already questionable motivation after he beat the big three. It was a case of 'is that it?' As long as he's making good money he couldn't give a shit about being an all time great. The guy cited his foundation as being his main motivation for playing. Maybe there's an element of cowardice there: 'if I don't try I can't lose?' He's a strange cat.
That's pretty spot on for me. I can see a lot of insecurity in his both on and off court behaviour.
 

·
Registered User
Joined
·
6,609 Posts
His movement is completely undermined by his refusal to put the work in of the court. When he's fit his movement is great for a guy of his height.
The baseline game has declined heavily from his teenage years. Again. it's down to his inability to turn up on the court fit. He hasn't improved any shot since he burst onto the scene; on the contrary, they've declined heavily.
He has great hands for a tall guy, but it's more or less irrelevant due to the regression in all other aspects of the game.
His mentality is the issue: he simply lost all of his already questionable motivation after he beat the big three. It was a case of 'is that it?' As long as he's making good money he couldn't give a shit about being an all time great. The guy cited his foundation as being his main motivation for playing. Maybe there's an element of cowardice there: 'if I don't try I can't lose?' He's a strange cat.
Tend to agree.
He is 2-0 against Djoker, but that was in his worst year in 2017.
Nick seems to have rested on his laurels, and is not committed to training or improving.
A proper coach could change that approach, but he doesn't want one.
Nick is not going to be an ATG , but he could definitely contend for Masters and Slams if he put the time and effort in, and maybe even be a Top 8 player at the end of the year, and contend for the WTFs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
6’4 guys do not move great, some move fairly well but never great like Faker. Monfils is just fast as fuck but he gets wrong footed all the time. Yeah he pretty much is a servebot with trick shot abilities but he’s still awesome to watch and one of my faves easily.
You made an interesting observation. And one that is actually backed up by stats. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but there has never been a world #1 taller than 6'3, I believe Safin is the tallest #1 at 6'3. And I think there's a cutoff there. All guys taller than 6'3 or 6'4 start moving significantly worse than guys who are only an inch or two shorter, and the taller they are, the more confirmations you get for this stat. Very interesting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
His movement is completely undermined by his refusal to put the work in off the court. When he's fit his movement is great for a guy of his height.
The baseline game has declined heavily from his teenage years. Again, it's down to his inability to turn up on the court fit. He hasn't improved any shot since he burst onto the scene; on the contrary, they've declined heavily.
He has great hands for a tall guy, but it's more or less irrelevant due to the regression in all other aspects of the game.
His mentality is the issue: he simply lost all of his already questionable motivation after he beat the big three. It was a case of 'is that it?' As long as he's making good money he couldn't give a shit about being an all time great. The guy cited his foundation as being his main motivation for playing. Maybe there's an element of cowardice there: 'if I don't try I can't lose?' He's a strange cat.
I think you hit the nail on the head with that last one. If I don't try I won't lose, but people forget, you also won't win.
 

·
justice for all
Joined
·
16,233 Posts
Tend to agree.
He is 2-0 against Djoker, but that was in his worst year in 2017.
Nick seems to have rested on his laurels, and is not committed to training or improving.
A proper coach could change that approach, but he doesn't want one.
Nick is not going to be an ATG , but he could definitely contend for Masters and Slams if he put the time and effort in, and maybe even be a Top 8 player at the end of the year, and contend for the WTFs.
In general he has a great record vs Novak and Rafa combined + he usually played close matches vs Roger.
I think one of the reasons he’s doing so great against them (compared to on average vs rest of the field) is that he’s entering these matches as a huge underdog. This helps him mentally as he has „nothing to lose” in these matches.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,105 Posts
You made an interesting observation. And one that is actually backed up by stats. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but there has never been a world #1 taller than 6'3, I believe Safin is the tallest #1 at 6'3. And I think there's a cutoff there. All guys taller than 6'3 or 6'4 start moving significantly worse than guys who are only an inch or two shorter, and the taller they are, the more confirmations you get for this stat. Very interesting.
I think Safin was more like 6’4 or 6’5 but it could also be because taller guys don’t work on their movement as much as shorter guys do and prioritize their power game more. Some tall guys do use their height to their advantage to compensate for slower agility to get more balls back like Medvedev and Zverev but the difference between them and someone like Faker is clear. A lot of it though is simply how they train and of course it’s not just height that plays into this but also their build. You have Raonic and Monfils who are both 6’4/6’5 and Raonic’s serve is leagues above Monfils’s but it’s vice versa for their movement/getting balls back ability. Obviously Monfils is pretty lean and ripped and Raonic is more stockier and heavier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,355 Posts
Kyrgios is combination of: Ali, Tyson, Rodman, Rios, John McEnroe, and a circus clown.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
If he's so talentless why does he beat Medvedev, Zverev and Tsitsipas when he's on?

And why does he (usually) have close matches with Roger.

He has the talent he is just a lazy dude
Isner has wins/close matches against Roger, Tsitsipas and Zverev. What's the common denominator between him and Kyrgios, I wonder?
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top