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Re: Fill-in-the-Draw (FITD) 's-Hertogenbosch | Tsonga withdrew!! Resubmit draws!

Fwiw, how was my R2-pick for Pospisil vs Muller applied?
(It appears it didn't matter for me, I would have won in all possible scenarios, but it would matter for tied or untied 1st place and could have an effect on the ranking points application.)
 

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Re: Fill-in-the-Draw (FITD) 's-Hertogenbosch | Tsonga withdrew!! Resubmit draws!

Wow, unexpected victory. Thanks for the congrats!
Also, a big thank you to BMT360 for the management!

Congrats and good work BMT
 

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Discussion Starter #83
Re: Fill-in-the-Draw (FITD) 's-Hertogenbosch | Tsonga withdrew!! Resubmit draws!

Fwiw, how was my R2-pick for Pospisil vs Muller applied?
(It appears it didn't matter for me, I would have won in all possible scenarios, but it would matter for tied or untied 1st place and could have an effect on the ranking points application.)
Because you seemed to have messed up your draw. I don't know whether you meant to have Pospisil or Muller in R2.

Code:
R1
Karlovic
Ito
Haase
Verdasco
Bautista Agut
Hewitt
Paire
Mannarino
Pospisil
Muller
Nieminen
Garcia-Lopez
Sousa
Marchenko
Melzer
Goffin
R2
Karlovic
Haase
Bautista Agut
Mannarino
Pospisil
Garcia-Lopez
Marchenko
Goffin
QF
Karlovic
Bautista Agut
Muller
Goffin
SF
Karlovic
Goffin
F
Karlovic
 

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Re: Fill-in-the-Draw (FITD) 's-Hertogenbosch | Tsonga withdrew!! Resubmit draws!

He explained that he meant to pick Muller here

Sorry, it looks like I messed up my draw. I have Pospisil beating Muller in R2 and then Muller beating Garcia-Lopez in QF (a result of fixing stuff after the Tsonga withdrawal). I meant to have Muller beating Pospisil in R2 (hence the QF pick).
Fortunately this did not affect whether MIJB won the title or not. I have been concerned that a situation like that could happen ever since this became an issue. For example if he hadn't put Goffin in the final, MIJB would have finished 3 points behind Nightcrawl3r with the Pospisil pick worth 5 points. In my opinion, it would be an injustice for a small mistake like that to cost someone a title, it would be like saying someone didn't win the title because they made a spelling mistake...
 

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Oh , now I see this . MIJB#19 still wins so as long as this doesn't make me a jerk (thanks for your honesty) , I'll "plead my case" .


In FITD Bucharest I made the same mistake (just in later rounds) and manager Eddy DoubleD didn't count it : http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=617986&page=4


So, hoping I can be a winner too :) but I'll accept any decision from the manager from here :) .

.
 

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Oh , now I see this . MIJB#19 still wins so as long as this doesn't make me a jerk (thanks for your honesty) , I'll "plead my case" .


In FITD Bucharest I made the same mistake (just in later rounds) and manager Eddy DoubleD didn't count it : http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=617986&page=4


So, hoping I can be a winner too :) but I'll accept any decision from the manager from here :) .

.
He did count your draw, just not your wrong pick. Which is exactly what happened in this case, if I understand correctly.

Anyway, back then all the managers had not agreed on a solution and the topic had not come up again. So, right now, different managers have different views.

He explained that he meant to pick Muller here



Fortunately this did not affect whether MIJB won the title or not. I have been concerned that a situation like that could happen ever since this became an issue. For example if he hadn't put Goffin in the final, MIJB would have finished 3 points behind Nightcrawl3r with the Pospisil pick worth 5 points. In my opinion, it would be an injustice for a small mistake like that to cost someone a title, it would be like saying someone didn't win the title because they made a spelling mistake...
Pospisil and Muller can not be accepted as spelling mistakes for each other.

Someone 'explaining' what they meant after the MD has started should count for nothing.
 

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Congratulations to the Bosch 2015 champion, MJB#19.
Mahut is really nice on grass.
 

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In FITD Bucharest I made the same mistake (just in later rounds) and manager Eddy DoubleD didn't count it : http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=617986&page=4


So, hoping I can be a winner too :) but I'll accept any decision from the manager from here :) .

.
I would have accepted it. But the other managers didn't agree with me on this (see the ask the board thread in the FITD subforum)

For this tournament, you would have finished in 2nd place either way so it doesn't change anything.


Pospisil and Muller can not be accepted as spelling mistakes for each other.

Someone 'explaining' what they meant after the MD has started should count for nothing.
The fact that he wrote Muller in his QF picks is evidence that he intended to pick Muller in R2. (Note that if he had picked Garcia-Lopez to make the SFs, I would agree that no points should be awarded for the Pospisil-Muller R2 match.)

Managers sometimes have to infer what players meant to write due to errors when posting their draws. Example: this was BMT's draw from Zagreb last year, which you managed:

R1
Haas
Becker
Stakhovski
Sijsling
Kohlschreiber
Hanescu
Coric
Lajovic
Brands
Dodig
Rosol
Lacko
Pavic
Youzhny
R2
Haas
Sijsling
Kohlschreiber
Stepanek
Cilic
Dodig
Rosol
Youzhny
QF
Haas
Kohlschreiber
Cilic
Youzhny
SF
Kohlschreiber
Cilic
F
Kohlschreiber
He didn't write Stepanek or Cilic under R1, so technically he didn't make picks for Hajek-Evans[LL] or Cilic-Delic. But because he had both Stepanek and Cilic in the QFs, he obviously meant to pick them to win their R1 matches. It would be unreasonable to not award points for the R1 picks in this case (which you did, so you must have fixed his draw for him).

Clearly what happened here is not the exact same scenario, but it is similar in that there is evidence of the intention to pick a certain player in an earlier round. So basically it comes down to whether you think someone is telling the truth or not when they explain what they meant to write, and personally I would stop short of essentially accusing someone of lying unless there was evidence that suggested otherwise. After playing this game for 4+ years I've never seen anyone try to gain some sort of advantage by purposely submitting an incorrect draw. I think most people would find the idea of doing something like that a bit far-fetched.

Anyway I didn't intend to make a big deal out of this, since it's already been discussed before. The point I wanted to make was that anyone would probably feel hard done by if they inadvertently made a mistake like this and it ended up costing them a 1st place finish.
 

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Discussion Starter #89
I would have accepted it. But the other managers didn't agree with me on this (see the ask the board thread in the FITD subforum)

For this tournament, you would have finished in 2nd place either way so it doesn't change anything.




The fact that he wrote Muller in the QFs is evidence that he intended to pick Muller in R2. (Note that if he had picked Garcia-Lopez to make the QFs, I would agree that no points should be awarded for the Pospisil-Muller R2 match.)

Managers regularly have to infer what players meant to write due to errors when posting their draws. You might remember BMT's draw from Zagreb last year, which you managed:

He didn't write Stepanek or Cilic under R1, so technically he didn't make picks for Hajek-Evans[LL] or Cilic-Delic. But because he had both Stepanek and Cilic in the QFs, he obviously meant to pick them to win their R1 matches. It would be unreasonable to not award points for the R1 picks in this case (which you did, so you must have fixed his draw for him).

Clearly what happened here is not the exact same scenario, but it is similar in that there is evidence of the intention to pick a certain player in an earlier round. So basically it comes down to whether you think someone is telling the truth or not when they explain what they meant to write, and personally I would stop short of essentially accusing someone of lying unless there was evidence that suggested otherwise. After playing this game for 4+ years I've never seen anyone try to gain an advantage by purposely submitting an incorrect draw. I think most people would find the idea of doing something like that a bit far-fetched.

Anyway I didn't intend to make a big deal out of this, since it's already been discussed before. The point I wanted to make was that anyone would probably feel hard done by if they inadvertently made a mistake like this that ended up costing them a 1st place finish.
Yeah. This year, I didn't know whether he meant Pospisil to win and accidentally wrote Muller in R2 or if he meant Muller to win round one.
 
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