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Discussion Starter #1
All too often, comparisons between Federer and Djokovic are rendered difficult or meaningless because of the 6-year age gap between them.

But the following table shows a meaningful comparison of the performance of these outstanding indoor HCers at the ATP Finals over 13 years.

For the purposes of symmetry, I've omitted Novak's appearance at the ATP Finals at the age of 20 and Fed's appearances from the age of 34 on. In other words, I show only the direct age-by-age stats when data exists for both guys.

AgeRFND
21SFW
22WRR
23WSF
24FRR
25WW
26WW
27RRW
28SFW
29WF
30WDNQ
31FF
32SFRR
33FSF

Summary

RFND
W65
F32
SF32
RR13
DNQ01

As we can see, Federer has outperformed Djokovic quite substantially.

Out of the 13 years, Federer reached the SF stage 12 times, whereas Novak reached the SF stage 9 times.
 

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Quite substantially?
Are you sure you know the meaning of the word substantial?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Quite substantially?
Are you sure you know the meaning of the word substantial?
Yes, Mr. Black.

1 extra title, 1 extra final appearance, 1 extra SF appearance is quite substantial. Not very substantial, but quite substantial.

Are you sure you know the meaning of the word quite?
 

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King Of Tennis
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6 titles to 5 isn't a "substantial difference," but nice try. If you want to see what a substantial difference is then let's wait and see by how many weeks 310 gets smashed. I'd rather King having one less ATP Finals title than Federer but a 3-0 H2H in finals against him. In fact overall King has a 7-5 H2H lead over Federer indoors.

King has also won 5 Paris Masters titles (the most in history) to Federer's lousy 1. Even if we want to add in Federer's one Madrid title when it was on indoor hardcourt, it still doesn't make up the gap in their indoors pedigree.
 

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All too often, comparisons between Federer and Djokovic are rendered difficult or meaningless because of the 6-year age gap between them.

But the following table shows a meaningful comparison of the performance of these outstanding indoor HCers at the ATP Finals over 13 years.

For the purposes of symmetry, I've omitted Novak's appearance at the ATP Finals at the age of 20 and Fed's appearances from the age of 34 on. In other words, I show only the direct age-by-age stats when data exists for both guys.

AgeRFND
21SFW
22WRR
23WSF
24FRR
25WW
26WW
27RRW
28SFW
29WF
30WDNQ
31FF
32SFRR
33FSF

Summary

RFND
W65
F32
SF32
RR13
DNQ01

As we can see, Federer has outperformed Djokovic quite substantially.

Out of the 13 years, Federer reached the SF stage 12 times, whereas Novak reached the SF stage 9 times.


Looks like both of them are pretty comparable here really and makes one wonder what their careers would have looked like had they overlapped 100% in terms of age.
 

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Interesting and commendable work.

One thing though, 2003 and 2004 titles from Roger Federer were achieved on outdoor hard, it is likely but not certain (as Marat Safin was having a stellar indoor season) he would have won in 2004 but unlikely he would have won in 2003 as he had lost to Juan Carlos Ferrero, Ivan Ljubicic and Tim Henman the previous weeks indoor.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
6 titles to 5 isn't a "substantial difference," but nice try. If you want to see what a substantial difference is then let's wait and see by how many weeks 310 gets smashed...
DjokoKing triggered by a few stats?

Say it ain't so!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Interesting and commendable work.

One thing though, 2003 and 2004 titles from Roger Federer were achieved on outdoor hard, it is likely but not certain (as Marat Safin was having a stellar indoor season) he would have won in 2004 but unlikely he would have won in 2003 as he had lost to Juan Carlos Ferrero, Ivan Ljubicic and Tim Henman the previous weeks indoor.
Good points. Conversely, if 2005 hadn't been held on carpet, it is (arguably) likely that Fed would have beaten Nalbandian in the final.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Federer never even won a set in any of their three finals at this tournament, lol. The Wimbledon finals H2H is 3-0 too but at least they were somewhat competitive.
You're very triggered by these stats, aren't you?

Why?

Because they show quite clearly that Federer has the edge at this tournament.
 

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... Federer has outperformed Djokovic quite substantially.

Out of the 13 years, Federer reached the SF stage 12 times, whereas Novak reached the SF stage 9 times.
Federer has skipped Paris four times by his 33rd birthday, Djokovic never, winning five Paris titles + reaching one final, to Federer's one title and zero finals, and Parisovic is still pretty close to WTFderer.
 

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Good points. Conversely, if 2005 hadn't been held on carpet, it is (arguably) likely that Fed would have beaten Nalbandian in the final.
David Nalbandian was very good indoor, whether it is carpet or not, don't forget that. That ankle problem a few weeks before was probably a bigger factor.
 

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King Of Tennis
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You're very triggered by these stats, aren't you?

Why?

Because they show quite clearly that Federer has the edge at this tournament.
If you're going to count Federer's two asterisked ATP Finals titles he won on outdoor hardcourt to try and prove he's a better indoor player, then I can't help you. That'd be like me talking about King's record leading four Shanghai titles to help prove his indoors capabilities, because the tournament in that spot on the calendar (i.e. Madrid) used to be on indoor hardcourt. In terms of big indoors titles, King has 5 ATP Finals + 5 Paris titles = 10. Federer has 4 ATP Finals + 1 Paris + 1 Madrid title = 6. Then there's the 3-0 H2H in London finals too.
 

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We can conclude:

1) Federer is the indoor GOAT.

And outside scope of this thread.

2) Federer is the Grass GOAT.
3) Nadal is the Clay GOAT.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If you're going to count Federer's two asterisked ATP Finals titles he won on outdoor hardcourt to try and prove he's a better indoor player, then I can't help you.
Read carefully, save yourself confusion.

This thread compares the WTF records of the two players by age, nothing else.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Then there's the 3-0 H2H in London finals too.
Djokovic leads the overall WTF H2H 4-3, which is of course much closer than your selective focus on the final.

But the purpose of this thread is to compare their performance at the WTF by age. And Federer has done better. Sorry that this triggers you so much, but it's true.
 

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Yes, Mr. Black.

1 extra title, 1 extra final appearance, 1 extra SF appearance is quite substantial. Not very substantial, but quite substantial.

Are you sure you know the meaning of the word quite?
Yeah, like people care about cherrypicking the F, SF, QF appearances stats.
Nobody cares about anything but champions. In every sport.
 
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