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Discussion Starter #1
fed against big4 in his era (2004-2009):
vs nole: 9-5 (64%)
vs rafa: 7-13 (35%)
vs muzza: 4-6 (40%)
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total: 20-24 (45%)

compared to eg noles record vs big 4 in his era

No1e against big4 in his era (2011-2020):
vs fed: 21 + WO-10 (69%)
vs rafa: 22-11 (67%)
vs muzza: 21-8 (72%)
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total: 64 + WO-29 (69%)



fed in his best year (2006) against big4 (he is 24-25 years old and nole and muse 18-19 and rafa 19-20):
vs nole: 2-0 (100%)
vs rafa: 2-4 (33%)
vs muzza: 0-1 (0%)
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total: 4-5 (44%)

nole in his best year (2015) against big4 (he and muse 27-28, fed 33-34 and rafa 28-29):
vs fed: 5-3 (63%)
vs rafa: 4-0 (100%)
vs muzza: 6-1 (85%)
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total: 15-4 (79%)


noting that nole in 2010 (at the turn of the 2 eras) had nose surgery and discovered a gluten allergy and that in 2015 he won over fed in the finals of Wimble, USO, WTF, IW and Rome and lost in the finals of Cinci and Dubai and in the group at WTF (so from 8 matches he won 5 most important matches and lost 3 most insignificant ones)! so fed finished with one masters and 6 titles in 2015, and if it weren't for nole, he would most likely have 2 slams, WTF, 3 masters and a total of 11 titles. it would be one of his strongest years and he would have a rome that he still lacks. just as Rafa's strongest year would have been 2011 when he lost to Nolet in 6 grand finals (+7th at AO 2012) and, without him, he would probably have 3 slams and 5 masters and a total of 9 titles.
 

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Murray gave him a lot of trouble from 2005-2009. Djokovic also did starting from Canada 2007.

As you also pointed out, Federer had a losing H2H record in 2006 against the "Big 4". I'm not saying Federer isn't great or anything, but it's clear that he wasn't anywhere near as good against his rivals as he was against the rest of the field.
 

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Djokovic, though, absolutely dominated his rivals since 2011 and during his best seasons especially.
 

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@bhdtl cant disagree with anything you said here
 
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Honk! Honk! Random parameters alert!

2006 Fed's best year? Not 2004? Not 2005? Not 2007?

Why pick 2006? Oh yes, because of those 3 clay-court defeats against Rafa, which nicely skew the stats.

And Djokovic fans are constantly harping on about the 2004-07 era.

But when they want to create some stats that paint Fed in a worse light, then they suddenly extend the era by 2 years, so that they can include Fed's miserable 2008 results.

Here's a much simpler and more honest way of measuring dominance of an era:

In his pomp, Federer racked up 237 consecutive weeks at number one. Djokovic was unable to emulate that feat, because his form has always been more uneven, with pronounced slumps.

So no, the entire premise of the thread is wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Honk! Honk! Random parameters alert!

2006 Fed's best year? Not 2004? Not 2005? Not 2007?

Why pick 2006?
becouse it was his best year!

titles:
Tennis Masters Cup (Indoor/Hard)
Basel (Indoor/Carpet)
ATP Masters 1000 Madrid (Indoor/Hard)
Tokyo (Outdoor/Hard)
US Open (Outdoor/Hard)
ATP Masters 1000 Canada (Outdoor/Hard)
Wimbledon (Outdoor/Grass)
Halle (Outdoor/Grass)
ATP Masters 1000 Miami (Outdoor/Hard)
ATP Masters 1000 Indian Wells (Outdoor/Hard)

Australian Open (Outdoor/Hard)
Doha (Outdoor/Hard)

finals:
Roland Garros (Outdoor/Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Rome (Outdoor/Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Monte Carlo (Outdoor/Clay)

Dubai (Outdoor/Hard)

points:
 

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Honk! Honk! Random parameters alert!

2006 Fed's best year? Not 2004? Not 2005? Not 2007?

Why pick 2006? Oh yes, because of those 3 clay-court defeats against Rafa, which nicely skew the stats.

And Djokovic fans are constantly harping on about the 2004-07 era.

But when they want to create some stats that paint Fed in a worse light, then they suddenly extend the era by 2 years, so that they can include Fed's miserable 2008 results.

Here's a much simpler and more honest way of measuring dominance of an era:

In his pomp, Federer racked up 237 consecutive weeks at number one. Djokovic was unable to emulate that feat, because his form has always been more uneven, with pronounced slumps.

So no, the entire premise of the thread is wrong.
Also losing record vs. Big 4 lol. Exaggeration at its best. The 0:1 against Murray in Cincinnati after he was exhausted after Having reached 6 finals in less than two months. he was 2:0 against Djokovic and 2:4 against nadal, which involved 2 chokes btw...
 

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becouse it was his best year!
Actually, no, it's not as straightforward as that.

In 2005, Fed was 81-4, which is just one match away from emulating the best ever season in men's tennis (McEnroe's 82-3 in 1984).

A similar case can be made for his 3-slam, WTF-winning 2004 and 2007 seasons.

But it's obvious why you choose 2006. Because of those clay-court encounters against Nadal, which skew Fed's stats and allow you to construct your dubious argument.
 

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There is no big 4 as Murray is not in the same league as the big 3. As for 2006, the Dull losses were clay and the Murray one is simply a loss like any other as no one can win every match. In Faker’s 2015, he lost 3 times to Federer in straight sets with 2 of them being finals. Even in 2011, Faker had a lot of trouble with Federer who was nowhere near his peak.
 

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Actually, no, it's not as straightforward as that.

In 2005, Fed was 81-4, which is just one match away from emulating the best ever season in men's tennis (McEnroe's 82-3 in 1984).

A similar case can be made for his 3-slam, WTF-winning 2004 and 2007 seasons.

But it's obvious why you choose 2006. Because of those clay-court encounters against Nadal, which skew Fed's stats and allow you to construct your dubious argument.
2006 was still his best season. He won 12 titles to 11 in 2005, won 3 slams, reached all four slam finals, won the WTF and had a record of 92:5 in the end. Yes I know that technically 81-4 is a 0,3% better winrate than 92-5 but does that really matter more than 2 big titles and 11 match wins more?
 

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2006 was still his best season. He won 12 titles to 11 in 2005, won 3 slams, reached all four slam finals, won the WTF and had a record of 92:5 in the end. Yes I know that technically 81-4 is a 0,3% better winrate than 92-5 but does that really matter more than 2 big titles and 11 match wins more?
A matter of fine margins, but I still prefer 2005, or even 2004.

Over the course of those two years, he won 22 consecutive finals until finally Nalbandian beat him at the very end of 2005.

By contrast, he lost 4 finals in 2006, all to Nadal. That's a blemish that 2004 and 2005 don't have.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
As for 2006, the Dull losses were clay and the Murray one is simply a loss like any other as no one can win every match. In Faker’s 2015, he lost 3 times to Federer in straight sets with 2 of them being finals. Even in 2011, Faker had a lot of trouble with Federer who was nowhere near his peak.
2015 nole vs fed matches arranged by importance:

2015Wimbledon
Great Britain
Outdoor GrassFNovak Djokovic761 6710 64 63
2015US Open
NY, U.S.A.
Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic64 57 64 64
2015ATP Finals
Great Britain
Indoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 64
2015ATP Masters 1000 Indian Wells
CA, U.S.A.
Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 675 62
2015ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy
Outdoor ClayFNovak Djokovic64 63
2015ATP Masters 1000 Cincinnati
OH, U.S.A.
Outdoor HardFRoger Federer761 63
2015Dubai
U.A.E.
Outdoor HardFRoger Federer63 75
2015ATP Finals
Great Britain
Indoor HardRRRoger Federer75 62

Dubai on clay 2006:
2006Dubai
U.A.E.
Outdoor HardFRafael Nadal26 64 64

in 2006 that was 6 fed vs rafa meatings, 3 on and 3 aff the clay. and result was 4-2 rafa!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Most wins over Big4 in a season:

2015 Djokovic 15
2011 Djokovic 12
2008 Nadal 11
2007 Nadal 9
2012 Djokovic 8
2014 Djokovic 8

Where's Roger?
 

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i love how Djokovic fans are desperately compiling all this needless analysis when he's still a significant way off the all time slam count by himself. One gets the feeling they are starting to worry that's no longer a fait accompli and now scrambling to find lame ways to justify his status. get a life people.

and if you want to go into such minute detail year-by-year then you really need to acknowledge all the facts of the year given all 4 have had significant periods where injuries/mental fatigue have made them less of a factor. you can't say "Djokovic had a gluten intolerance so those results aren't meaningful" and not do the same when it comes to Nadal's knees, Federer's back, Murray's hips etc.
 

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So, let's get this straight. Fed lost to Djokovic and Nadal, but not to players actually in his own era like Hewitt and Roddick? Newsflash, older players often lose to younger players.
 

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2015 nole vs fed matches arranged by importance:

2015Wimbledon
Great Britain
Outdoor GrassFNovak Djokovic761 6710 64 63

2015US Open
NY, U.S.A.
Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic64 57 64 64

2015ATP Finals
Great Britain
Indoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 64

2015ATP Masters 1000 Indian Wells
CA, U.S.A.
Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 675 62

2015ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy
Outdoor ClayFNovak Djokovic64 63

2015ATP Masters 1000 Cincinnati
OH, U.S.A.
Outdoor HardFRoger Federer761 63

2015Dubai
U.A.E.
Outdoor HardFRoger Federer63 75

2015ATP Finals
Great Britain
Indoor HardRRRoger Federer75 62

Dubai on clay 2006:
2006Dubai
U.A.E.
Outdoor HardFRafael Nadal26 64 64

in 2006 that was 6 fed vs rafa meatings, 3 on and 3 aff the clay. and result was 4-2 rafa!
Ok so Dull won 1 match off clay and barely did it anyway. Not much there. Why is Rome more important than Cincy? Masters are masters. Not to mention the courts suit Faker more than Federer as they’ve been getting slower and slower and slower and slower and slower.......





and slower.
 

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A matter of fine margins, but I still prefer 2005, or even 2004.

Over the course of those two years, he won 22 consecutive finals until finally Nalbandian beat him at the very end of 2005.

By contrast, he lost 4 finals in 2006, all to Nadal. That's a blemish that 2004 and 2005 don't have.
I do think he played better in 05, but 06 is up there. How does losing thrice to any non-slump nadal is a blemish? Anyhow, I do think this is yet another unnecessary thread. And to think we're still 2 months away from next season...
It's gonna be two long months on this forum lol
 
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