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Novak missed a big chance to be the greatest ever. Now it is still Roger.
 
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Medvedev explained in his press conference that obviously the fact that Djokovic was right there next to him had an influence on what he said. Noletards are so gullible. Lol
But I am sure deep down he knows it is Nadal. By the way I listen to the press conference and you are full of bull like always. Zverev said it, Danil said it, but in your head they say Novak and you hear Rafa, thats how delusional you are.
 

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Okay i rarely write in these forums, but i will try to make this as simple as possible...

So here are some simple things, cause lately i'm still seeing Federer = GOAT messages, which is clearly wrong... it was right until 2020 though.
You can't live in the past anymore though... Hello... Nadal has 20? Hello Federer fans, do you think it's still 15? Helloo? Wake up from your dream...

Why you guys just can't look at Grand slam counts? 20-20-20.

Thiem got 1, i heard him yesterday on eurosport, he was really proud... Just 1, he worked for this his whole life... These guys got 20 so it's close... Grand slams are the main thing... rest is okay if there is a split... and there is...

Let's discard the old ERA players from this, cause it's really hard to compare old raquets vs new raquets plus way too many differences in surface... strength of opposition.
So we are talking about BIG 3 only, that's important to note. If we take into account old ERA players. I can't form an opinion...
Other MTF experts can for sure, so if they say Big 3 < Old ERA any player, i believe them...

If you think for some unknown reason other 100-200 tournaments(WTF, masters 1000's,500 etc...), H2H matters, weeks #1 always take into account the next important thing, which is obviously you can ask any tennis player:
It's Olympic Gold Singles. No it's not H2H or any other thing... Djokovic cried when he couldn't reach his dream:
Olympics Gold Singles...
Now he cried again after losing the 21th grand slam yesterday. Why is it similar? Because these tournaments the most important things in tennis...

Doubles Olympic Gold is a nice thing to have, but like irrelevant almost, except if 2 guys have same amount of Singles Olympics Gold medals ... But then you could say doubles in meaningless. So maybe then you need to find the 3rd most important thing. IMO it's Total Masters(1000 + WTF combined). But this one can be debatable...

So at the end it's currently 2021.09.13:
Rafa:20+1
Novak:20
Roger: 20



GOAT: from 2020 RG win = Rafa

2010 or earlier - 2020 GOAT = Federer

2022 and after GOAT = Djokovic most likely until someone passes him in like 2045 :D


If Djokovic won either the Olympic Gold Singles this year in Tokyo or the US Open, he will be already undisputed GOAT for a while, because we don't know about Rafa or Roger's future in terms of winning another Grand Slam.
I think Rafa fans should enjoy this short amount of time, while he is the GOAT. Federer fans already enjoyed for so long time... and i'm happy for them... It's a nice feeling... But now let's Rafa fans have their time...

Djokovic Fans no need to hurry and come up with all kinds of other stats, which are only meaningful if all other things are equal, also he is that good that he can win like 4+ GS's in my book ;)

And he can also win in 2024 the Olympic gold! He might be the favourite there, you never know... 2024 only less then 3 years away... Yes it's not likely, but you never know...

So Djoko fans, your time will come, why the rush? Yes for Medvedev maybe Djoko is the GOAT, but he was not objective there... You need math there and math says 20-20-20. Now that's a split... Next important thing decides: Olympics Singles Gold...

You can add up all other factors and Djoko then already the GOAT, but why would you do that? Then you could already say when he had 17 grand slams... And i don't think too many people will agree that 17 > 20... whatever other huge results he had besides the 17 grand slams... So what was the Break-even point vs Rafa. 19? 19>20 in your book? That would be a huge debate, so why would we want to do that? Simple numbers simple results...


Here is an easy thing to see about the rarity factor:
You can win 16 Grand Slams, while u win 1 Olympics Gold. Why is Olympics the biggest Sports event in the world?
Why the second is the Football World Championship or Athletics WCH? Because it's the most important thing.
It's your personal choice if you think it doesn't matter, but i think it's fair to say it's a hard thing to win, much harder than a WTF or 5-10 Masters 1000's tournaments... And also much harder then positive h2h record or winning 250 tourneys...

So if you disagree Olympics is a thing in Tennis(or you can name 1 important more important thing... SPOILER ALERT: You can't):

Then it's 20-20-20.
Triple Equal GOAT!(y)
 

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They are all tied at 20 right now so no one has cemented the Goat status yet. It’s really simple, whoever has the most Grand Slams when it is all said and done will be the Goat. I think Novak will have that title.
 

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Okay i rarely write in these forums, but i will try to make this as simple as possible...

So here are some simple things, cause lately i'm still seeing Federer = GOAT messages, which is clearly wrong... it was right until 2020 though.
You can't live in the past anymore though... Hello... Nadal has 20? Hello Federer fans, do you think it's still 15? Helloo? Wake up from your dream...

Why you guys just can't look at Grand slam counts? 20-20-20.

Thiem got 1, i heard him yesterday on eurosport, he was really proud... Just 1, he worked for this his whole life... These guys got 20 so it's close... Grand slams are the main thing... rest is okay if there is a split... and there is...

Let's discard the old ERA players from this, cause it's really hard to compare old raquets vs new raquets plus way too many differences in surface... strength of opposition.
So we are talking about BIG 3 only, that's important to note. If we take into account old ERA players. I can't form an opinion...
Other MTF experts can for sure, so if they say Big 3 < Old ERA any player, i believe them...

If you think for some unknown reason other 100-200 tournaments(WTF, masters 1000's,500 etc...), H2H matters, weeks #1 always take into account the next important thing, which is obviously you can ask any tennis player:
It's Olympic Gold Singles. No it's not H2H or any other thing... Djokovic cried when he couldn't reach his dream:
Olympics Gold Singles...
Now he cried again after losing the 21th grand slam yesterday. Why is it similar? Because these tournaments the most important things in tennis...

Doubles Olympic Gold is a nice thing to have, but like irrelevant almost, except if 2 guys have same amount of Singles Olympics Gold medals ... But then you could say doubles in meaningless. So maybe then you need to find the 3rd most important thing. IMO it's Total Masters(1000 + WTF combined). But this one can be debatable...

So at the end it's currently 2021.09.13:
Rafa:20+1
Novak:20
Roger: 20



GOAT: from 2020 RG win = Rafa

2010 or earlier - 2020 GOAT = Federer

2022 and after GOAT = Djokovic most likely until someone passes him in like 2045 :D


If Djokovic won either the Olympic Gold Singles this year in Tokyo or the US Open, he will be already undisputed GOAT for a while, because we don't know about Rafa or Roger's future in terms of winning another Grand Slam.
I think Rafa fans should enjoy this short amount of time, while he is the GOAT. Federer fans already enjoyed for so long time... and i'm happy for them... It's a nice feeling... But now let's Rafa fans have their time...

Djokovic Fans no need to hurry and come up with all kinds of other stats, which are only meaningful if all other things are equal, also he is that good that he can win like 4+ GS's in my book ;)

And he can also win in 2024 the Olympic gold! He might be the favourite there, you never know... 2024 only less then 3 years away... Yes it's not likely, but you never know...

So Djoko fans, your time will come, why the rush? Yes for Medvedev maybe Djoko is the GOAT, but he was not objective there... You need math there and math says 20-20-20. Now that's a split... Next important thing decides: Olympics Singles Gold...

You can add up all other factors and Djoko then already the GOAT, but why would you do that? Then you could already say when he had 17 grand slams... And i don't think too many people will agree that 17 > 20... whatever other huge results he had besides the 17 grand slams... So what was the Break-even point vs Rafa. 19? 19>20 in your book? That would be a huge debate, so why would we want to do that? Simple numbers simple results...


Here is an easy thing to see about the rarity factor:
You can win 16 Grand Slams, while u win 1 Olympics Gold. Why is Olympics the biggest Sports event in the world?
Why the second is the Football World Championship or Athletics WCH? Because it's the most important thing.
It's your personal choice if you think it doesn't matter, but i think it's fair to say it's a hard thing to win, much harder than a WTF or 5-10 Masters 1000's tournaments... And also much harder then positive h2h record or winning 250 tourneys...

So if you disagree Olympics is a thing in Tennis(or you can name 1 important more important thing... SPOILER ALERT: You can't):

Then it's 20-20-20.
Triple Equal GOAT!(y)
Nice try, but no.

I agree with you, the Olympics are important and it should be every player's dream to win it. But it is a tournament where you represent your country just like Davis Cup, ATP Cup etc.

It just can't be as important as a Grand Slam.

With your logic, players who won Olympic gold medals like Nicolás Massú and Marc Rosset (did you even heard about this guy??) are neck to neck with Andy Roddick who won 1 Grand Slam? No way.

Or that Andy Murray who won 3 GS and 2 OG is almost neck to neck with Boris Becker & Stefan Edberg who won 6 GS?? Nonsense.

In Nadal-Djokovic GOAT debate, OG can be determining factor ONLY and ONLY IF NDJ and RN had the similar number of GS,WTF,Masters,YEN1, Weeks at N1..Only in that case Nadal should be in front because he won the OG.

But in the real world where Nadal has 0 WTF, 150 weeks less at N1, 2 YEN1 less (and don't get me started on double CGS and Masters, h2h etc) he just can't be the GOAT.

1 OG can't be worth that much to fill this huge gap between NDJ and RN (which will only get bigger as time passes by).

If OG is worth that much Andy Murray should be in this GOAT debate as well since he has 2 OG.

If you see the picture below the ATP Tour (which means the whole tennis world) is counting OG even below Masters titles.

So no, Nadal is not the GOAT just because he won 1 OG.

Forehead Head Chin Facial expression White
 

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Berratini, Zverev and Medvedev all confirmed at USO that Djokovic is GOAT.
If most top guys consider him so I think that has more weight than what 1.000.000 MTF tards think.
 

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If you see the picture below the ATP Tour (which means the whole tennis world) is counting OG even below Masters titles.
ATP probably doesn't want the biggest number at the bottom. Anyone will agree an OG is worth more than a masters.

But it's not worth more than a WTF.

Obviously, though, we have owners fallacy going here. Anything my favourite has more of than the competitors must be worth a lot, anything he's got less of much be worth little. You can't fight this logic, so the best way to convince everyone is to have more of everything, which of course is not going to happen for anyone.
 

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But it's not worth more than a WTF.

Obviously, though, we have owners fallacy going here. Anything my favourite has more of than the competitors must be worth a lot, anything he's got less of much be worth little. You can't fight this logic, so the best way to convince everyone is to have more of everything, which of course is not going to happen for anyone.
Yes, I agree with. But you just can't win them all. Djokovic already has by far the best resume with most all around stats,titles and accomplishments.

Nadal is all time great for sure, but has to many flaws in his resume when it is compared to Novak's to be the GOAT (and I not talking about his Clay dominance,every title counts the same for me), and one OG can't fix that, no matter how important it is.
 

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1. Nadal has more us open titles 4-3 2. Nadal has more Canadian opens 5-4 3. Nadal has more Madrid masters on hard 1-0 discuss?
 

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1. Nadal has more us open titles 4-3 2. Nadal has more Canadian opens 5-4 3. Nadal has more Madrid masters on hard 1-0 discuss?
Novak didn't even play in Canada last few years, which is expected since he was taking a break after winning Wimbledon. As for Madrid, that's really clutching at straws.
 

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Great that the GOAT debate continues and intensifies after Djoker's total collapse at the CYGS finishing line.

Yes, it is truly puzzling that a Clay Court Specialist has more titles at the most prestigious hard court event in the world The United States Open than the presumably best player ever in history to step out on a hard court.

Mind boggling that a Clay Court Specialist is ahead 2-1 against the best hard courter ever at the biggest hard court tournament in history.

Furthermore, it doesn't makes any sense that the best hard courter ever is down 3-6 in finals at the world biggest hard court event. Maybe he was just unlucky?
 

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Here's another stat to the legacy of GOATvic

Both Federer and Nadal have only lost to 3 players in a grand slam final

Federer - Nadal, Djokovic and Del Potro
Nadal - Federer, Djokovic and Wawrinka

Djokovic on the other hand has lost to 5 players in a grand slam final and 4 of them have been at multiple slams, so there is a high chance he will lose to Medvedev again

Federer, Nadal, Wawrinka, Murray and Medvedev
 

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Djokovic, if anything, cemented his status as GOAT even more after losing the final (reaching 31 Slam Finals) and going 27-1 in Slam matches this year
 

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ATP probably doesn't want the biggest number at the bottom. Anyone will agree an OG is worth more than a masters.

But it's not worth more than a WTF.

Obviously, though, we have owners fallacy going here. Anything my favourite has more of than the competitors must be worth a lot, anything he's got less of much be worth little. You can't fight this logic, so the best way to convince everyone is to have more of everything, which of course is not going to happen for anyone.
Yes.

You also have to consider that OG is not an ATP event.

And in the current conflicting relationship between ATP / ITF, ATP is not going to put OG in front of its own events.

The GS case is of course different, since GS is above everything and distributes ATP points.

It is here also that we see that ATP is caught in its own trap by promoting "big titles" neologism .. because they cannot decently remove OG from a category of important titles (I would not say "Major", even if in French this concept is broader than GS).
If it does not put OG among its big title "pick", ATP would cause another controversy, if not a scandal.

For me, ATP should never have created this neologism exclusively reserved for big3, since in any case, it is a measure of so-called "goat", not applying in any case to "all times".

Where is OG for players before 1988?

Where is MS for players before 1990

Where is Grand Slam Cup outside 1990's?

Where is now WCT finals?

Etc

For me, with "big titles neologism", ATP maintains and develops a recency bias which of course has no historical legitimacy, and is at best an arbitrary measure between big 3. Nothing else.

In history, "all times", so, all titles count.

109 of Connors, like 103 of Federer, like .. 133 Rosewall and others,
Even if measurement is more difficult before Open Era, it is the titles of an era which are not "canceled" by the current era.

I do not practice "cancel culture", neither in the general history, nor in the history of the game ...
 

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1. Nadal has more us open titles 4-3 2. Nadal has more Canadian opens 5-4 3. Nadal has more Madrid masters on hard 1-0 discuss?
Djokovic has won four "Madrid masters", because Madrid indoor masters is Shanghai Masters since 2009, and was Stuttgart masters 1996-2001 etc.

Nadal is better at two HC big tournaments = 2/9 = 22,2 %

Federer is better than Nadal at Hamburg/Madid clay masters = 1 / 4 = 25 %
 

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Both Federer and Nadal have only lost to 3 players in a grand slam final

Federer - Nadal, Djokovic and Del Potro
Nadal - Federer, Djokovic and Wawrinka
Proof of a REALLY strong era.

Djokovic on the other hand has lost to 5 players

Federer, Nadal, Wawrinka, Murray and Medvedev
Proof of the GOAT's longevity. He will lose more to the NextGen in the future, but he'll also win more.
 
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