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Discussion Starter #1
This was his first slam.

He trails them by 2.

He was a day less rest removed from this being his 2nd slam, both HC slams.

He's lost 3 (defacto) RG finals to Nadal.

It woulnd't be undeserved at all for him to go down as better.

There is a huge Masters gap between Murray and him, which will be interesting when they both have 3 slams, or even if Thiem wins a 4th.
 

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Stan, yes. Murray no. Will be interested to see if he can climb the mountain and unseat Djokovic.
 
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Overtaking Stan is possible but Murray - I really doubt it. Dominic would need to win at least 5 slams to tie Andy who has much much better resume than Domi outside slams. So it’s unlikely bearing in mind neither Nadal nor Djokovic probably won’t retire in the next 2-3 years.
Anyway, I think it’s much too early for such conversation, he’s not ahead of DelPo yet.
 

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"He was a day less rest removed from this being his 2nd slam, both HC slams.

He's lost 3 (defacto) RG finals to Nadal."


For starters, let's deal in facts.
 

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Let's be real here, Murray won most of his slams with Rafa not playing, Fed injury, Djoker R2 exit, wind-fest, a bunch of stuff came together for him also..

Thiem won't collect as many plates, but he will still be a better player on clay than Murray on grass.

And facing Zverev became a sticky matter once Zverev started out playing his best match of the year and probably since 2018, while Thiem was 0-3 to date in finals and felt he had to win.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
And let's also not act like Murray was purely a better tennis player by a noticeable margin.

In their first 2 match-ups on indoor hard and hard 2014 and 2015, a 21 and 22-year old Thiem took a set off of him.

And he crushed a pretty inspired and well playing Murray for 1.5 sets at Beijing last year.

Was he better on the whole? Obviously.

I base this off of Thiem still adding to it, which he still has plenty of time for.
 

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That's a stretch. Healthy/in-form Murray could easily go toe to toe vs Thiem on clay, while on grass it wouldn't be close.
Make no mistake. Murray got 2 clay M1000s (finals won against best 2 clay courters out there) while Thiem shares his best clay titles (2 ATP500s) with the likes like Bashilasvili and Leo Mayer.
 

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If he wins 4 slams he'll be considered the best. If he wins 3, tied with Wawrinka and below Murray. Maybe above Wawrinka depending on how he does.
 

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As your king I think I should chime in here.
Murray won the most important and difficult title to win, twice, with his Olympic victories.At the 2012 games he beat Stanimal, Djokovic (the goat) and Federer in straights. He's golden! If he wins the third he will be a goat contender himself.Comparisons with Thiem are pretty baseless. Murray was also chief defender of the realm of tennis from the corrosive next gens for many years. A great debt is owed as he protected the image of our great sport from all manner of one dimensional pushers, serve bots and serve bot pushers (imagine if Raonic had won a slam!). Even metal hip ray (I wonder if it's gold?) banished the dark force of Zverev in Cinci recently in a singular act of heroism. The streets won't forget Murray - nor should the MTF tennis cognoscenti!
 
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If he wins 4 slams he'll be considered the best. If he wins 3, tied with Wawrinka and below Murray. Maybe above Wawrinka depending on how he does.
No, even with five slams he can't be better than Murray if Murray stayed considerably better in other statistics like 14 masters, 8 seasons y.e. top-4, 2 OG, 46 titles.

Thiem would be greater, though, although not by much if he amassed less slam F and SF.

Murray with 21 GS semis is already no.9 all-time player and just two semis short of Sampras at no.8, so, maybe he could even get there in the coming seasons, but without injury he would've certainly been top-5-7 (Lendl_28, Agassi_26, Rosewall_25 semis).
 

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Remains to be seen. Wawrinka maybe. Murray will be tough as he has 5 slams, #1 for 43 weeks, so many slam finals and masters 1000 titles, all vs peak Fedalovic

Thiem just needs to go one at a time now. I forsee an era coming up with numerous guys with 1-6 slams
 

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That's a stretch. Healthy/in-form Murray could easily go toe to toe vs Thiem on clay, while on grass it wouldn't be close.
Haha, whut?

We just have entirely different impressions of clay Thiem, I guess

Thiem has beaten Nadal on clay every year since 2016

Absolutely destroyed Djokovic on it several times

How is Murray close to that kind of pedigree?

Thiem has basically made 3 straight FO Finals now, even for grass Murray that's never happened at WB.
 

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Too soon to tell. Slams are the most important factor IMO, so if Thiem wins more than 5 slams then I would probably consider him better than Murray and Wawrinka. However, if he simply matches Murray's slam total of 3 (or even if he beats him by 1 slam), he's unlikely to be considered better because of Andy's tremendous achievements outside of the majors: 14 Masters 1000s, an ATP Finals title, two Olympics Gold medals, the World Number 1 ranking, reached the finals of all 4 majors and all of this during the peak era of the 3 greatest players of all time. Also, while Murray has a slightly lower winning % on clay than Thiem he has a significantly higher matching winning % on the other two surfaces. Thiem will not win the Olympics because he doesn't play that event, he's unlikely to make the Wimbledon final IMO, he's never been ranked in the top 2 let alone number 1, and he's only won 1 Masters event. Unless he significantly improves these stats, he will need at least 2 slams more than Murray for me to consider his career more successful - which he definitely has the potential to do - but that's still a long way away.
 

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He's probably on course to better Wawinka's career, if he keeps doing well in slams - and let us remember this year is the first and only year so far he got deeper than a QF outside of the French Open. He has to keep it up. But Wawrinka was even later to start going deep in slams and still won 3, so Thiem will get chance to win a lot more.

A long way off on Murray though. He currently has a marginally lower win % in slam finals compared to Andy, so if that doesn't improve (which it might, although Thiem has a worse record in any big finals) he'll have to reach a huge volume of finals/semi finals in slam, win a lot of masters, reach #1 and more other titles too. He has so much to achieve before he's quite at that level. He could do it though, thats for sure.

Personally I think Thiem will never match the consistency of Murray, but might win more slams. Just depends what you value more, because he won't get near Murray on total titles or total match wins or even win % on any surface unless Thiem is going to be playing until 40 at a high level. Murray is 676 wins 198 defeats and Thiem is 291 wins 153 defeats.

Yeah overall it depends how you look at it, but if Thiem carries on improving he'll probably go down ahead of Wawrinka and at least be involved in conversations for over Murray. Just depends how heavily you value certain factors, such as slam victories/finals, it won't be the same value level for every fan.

Sadly Thiem never got to play these two very much to make any conclusions on head to head records
 
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