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Djokovic already tried to achieve Graf´s golden slam and he failed but anyway.... Djokovic doesn´t need to break any of those records to be the goat in terms of achievements, after last RG and passing Federer´s #1 weeks he could be already considered marginally above Nadal and Federer in that department for those who care about minuscule irrelevant margins.

The problem with the GOAT status is that Djokovic is getting all those records in a weak era and there are other questionings when comparing to the other big 3 and yet, even with a few dozens weeks #1 more than Federer the margins are slim to be clear GOAT, he will always be considered in the big 3 group like Fedal.
 

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I know what you wrote about. But I was interested in something else. Thats why I asked you that.

Which means your answer is yes. You question the IF probability of Graf very realistically not ending up with 377 and 22 because you simply exclude yourself from Ifs and choose to ignore them and only acknowledge the numbers as they are.

I understand your approach but with this case it is laughable to not admit what is so obvious. Losing a main rival and potential GOAT in her teenage years changes a career dramatically.

I hope you understand that I dont like to disrespect Seles. No offense to Graf but I dont treat her numbers the same as others.
I think most people overestimate the "IF probability" because of the circumstances involved in that event but it´s not that Monica was left paralytic, people forget that it was her own decision to stay away from the game after her wound healed in a couple of weeks and Graf or any other player had nothing to do with that attack anyway. There are so many cases of promising players that suddenly have not so much success anymore and Graf had to beat 99,99% of the tour left to win her slams in any case. I respect Seles for her teen career but to seed asterixes and ifs for what happened to her ALL things considered is just not objective and it is not fair either.

In the men´s side, we can argue about weaker or stronger eras and why Djokovic was able to get an advantage but trying to asterix or take achievements from him or any other player for anything, even if he was stabbed or whoever was stabbed, would not be impartial, it would only express one´s own emotions/preferences
 

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I think most people overestimate the "IF probability" because of the circumstances involved in that event but it´s not that Monica was left paralytic, people forget that it was her own decision to stay away from the game after her wound healed in a couple of weeks and Graf or any other player had nothing to do with that attack anyway. There are so many cases of promising players that suddenly have not so much success anymore and Graf had to beat 99,99% of the tour left to win her slams in any case. I respect Seles for her teen career but to seed asterixes and ifs for what happened to her ALL things considered is just not objective and it is not fair either.
Well just imagine if it were other way around, if some crazy Balkan guy stabbed Graf, wouldn't be surprised if Monica were boycotted or booed off the court or something
 

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Well just imagine if it were other way around, if some crazy Balkan guy stabbed Graf, wouldn't be surprised if Monica were boycotted or booed off the court or something
Assumptions, Monica wasn´t liked as much as Graf because of her grunts, but if she didn´t attack anyone there would be no reason to boycott her. Some players are more liked than others, Djokovic is not liked as much as Nadal or Federer but I highly doubt his career had been different if he was stabbed with a wound that healed in weeks, his willingness and confidence to win is just too high
 

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Cmon, man, how can you say that? In last 9 slams prior the attack, Monica won 7! And right after the attack Steffi won 4 slams in a row. What are we talking about??
So what? I said ALL things considered, you´re just cherry-picking but why not say that Graf had a slump for family problems by the time Seles won all those slams? why not say that no human player can sustain a slam winning streak for so many years? and the list goes on and on, but to me, the main argument against Seles is her decision to stay away instead of trying hard to come back soon when she could, truth is nobody knows for sure "what if" or "what would" maybe Seles had won more and Graf less or maybe they would have ended up winning exactly the same, speculations are free, reality isn´t.
 

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You are totally free to think that and you certainly have a point but you are assuming:

1- Seles would have matured and continued her teen success or improved it in adulthood she would not suffer major injuries and her motivation would remain intact, not every personality/life circumstances allows that linear evolution like so many cases have shown, and 2nd Graf would not respond and not improve to try to beat her rival or adapt to the higher standards of the game. Truth is, Seles didn´t show she was ambitious enough and Graf kept improving her game through the 90´s, she changed her raquet and kept improving her serve and bh and that´s why she beat everyone else except Seles who was absent.

In an hypothetical world, nothing can be certain.
 

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Assumptions, Monica wasn´t liked as much as Graf because of her grunts, but if she didn´t attack anyone there would be no reason to boycott her. Some players are more liked than others, Djokovic is not liked as much as Nadal or Federer but I highly doubt his career had been different if he was stabbed with a wound that healed in weeks, his willingness and confidence to win is just too high
It's not a freakin blister, the mental part of being stabbed on the court does not go away "in weeks", you're completely obtuse or just cynical if you think a stabbing is just another injury, but that's exactly why people question and will keep questioning that record
 

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Cmon, man, how can you say that? In last 9 slams prior the attack, Monica won 7! And right after the attack Steffi won 4 slams in a row. What are we talking about??
In tennis you never know.

Before 1999 RG final, Hingis was clearly world number 1 with all Grand Slam titles won except French Open where she was the clear favorite...and she lost it...Not only lost, but has never ever won a Grand Slam title after that. Who would have predicted that based on her career prior to that moment...Nobody. So, nothing is certain.
 

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Prior to stabbing, Graf had leading H2H against Monica, while Monica was ranked world number 1...Apart from that, Seles never beat Graf on grass, hard court or indoors. All her wins against Graf came on slow surface, either on clay or rebound ace. So, the fact is she was not getting spanked.
Ok, so the H2H was 6-4 Graf prior to the stabbing but the first 3 wins by Steffi came when Monica was 16 lol (Graf is 4.5 years older BTW)

Monica had won 7 of the past 9 GS's prior to the stabbing - she was dominating the Tour
 

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Ok, so the H2H was 6-4 Graf prior to the stabbing but the first 3 wins by Steffi came when Monica was 16 lol (Graf is 4.5 years older BTW)

Monica had won 7 of the past 9 GS's prior to the stabbing - she was dominating the Tour
I meant their H2H while Monica was number 1 in the world...prior to stabbing. Graf was leading in H2H meetings while Monica was number 1 in the world (1991-1993) and she was in a slump losing also regularly to Sabatini, Novotna, Sanchez etc. Btw, Monica never managed to beat her either on grass, hard courts or indoors. So, that is why she wasn't spanked as you said.
 

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Djokovic already tried to achieve Graf´s golden slam and he failed but anyway.... Djokovic doesn´t need to break any of those records to be the goat in terms of achievements, after last RG and passing Federer´s #1 weeks he could be already considered marginally above Nadal and Federer in that department for those who care about minuscule irrelevant margins.

The problem with the GOAT status is that Djokovic is getting all those records in a weak era and there are other questionings when comparing to the other big 3 and yet, even with a few dozens weeks #1 more than Federer the margins are slim to be clear GOAT, he will always be considered in the big 3 group like Fedal.
The only records he has amassed w/o Fedal present were a few like weeks at no.1 passing Fed & just passing Nadal in Masters making this a very weak argument, not era.

Nearly every other record he has accomplished when they were all competing as well.
 

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I meant their H2H while Monica was number 1 in the world...prior to stabbing. Graf was leading in H2H meetings while Monica was number 1 in the world (1991-1993) and she was in a slump losing also regularly to Sabatini, Novotna, Sanchez etc. Btw, Monica never managed to beat her either on grass, hard courts or indoors. So, that is why she wasn't spanked as you said.
beat her at Australian Open in 93 (and then years later as well), that was on HC wasn’t it?

ps - 10 of their 15 h2h matches were at slams, that’s an awesome %
 
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