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Do you still believe that Federer can reinvent himself or is this it.

  • Yes, he can re invent himself and start winning again,

    Votes: 5 22.7%
  • I don't / know maybe.

    Votes: 9 40.9%
  • No this is it. The beginning of the end.

    Votes: 8 36.4%

  • Total voters
    22
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Discussion Starter #1
WARNING Wall of Text and a long anecdote that you may or may not agree with. If you are too lazy to read, just answer the poll.

Federer's greatest trait has been his ability re-invent himself and change things up when something isn't working.

We have seen this quite a few times over the course of his career. First he started off as a heavier serve and volley player, but quickly realized that conditions and the courts were changing and thus adapted a much better baseline game. Not only that but he was sort of like a (way better) Dimitrov, in the fact that he had all the tools to win, but was a huge mental headcase and a ticking time bomb. Finally, in his early twenties he found the right head space and turned himself into the cool, calm and collected, dominant Swiss Tennis Player. The All-Court, guns blazing, 30 minute match Federer, experienced a true renaissance from 2003-2007. This was partially aided by the competition, but was mostly due to him just being that good.

Then came the famous thorn in the lion's paw: Nadal.

Nadal was the first obstacle in his practically perfect career. Along with Nadal came the slight slowing of the courts. While Federer was still an aggressive player, his ability to hit winners at will was dampened not only by the courts, but the new prototypical tennis player:The Defensive Baseliner. Nadal specifically took tennis fitness to all new levels. He was muscled and trained with Tio Tony for 8 hours a day, just on his calves and legs! All of the sudden, Nadal was tracking down Federer's typical winners and hitting them back with interest to his backhand side. Federer, being who he is, attempted to change his game and adapt a more baseline focused strategy. This worked vs. most of the tour, as he relied on point construction more than just going for the outright winner. Unfortunately for him, Nadal was just that good and was the first tennis player to be able to play at similar God-Like levels. When Nadal had a good day, which often happened, then there was just no way to get past him. He was an invincible wall.

While Federer struggled with Nadal, one has to remember that there many other players coming out onto the scene in 2008: Djokovic, Murray, Tsonga, Berdych, Gasquet, Monflis, Del Potro, etc. They were X years his junior and wanted to beat the so called "invincible man". Many of these guys were able to score a win or two over Federer (ignoring Gasquet and Monflis...) and became a threat to the Federer legacy and his ability to win tournament.

That brings us to 2009-2012. All of the sudden, Federer, while still being very relevant, came under attack from all sides. Nadal was playing superb and Djokovic began his ascension to greatness and Murray became more pronounced. While Federer lost many important matches, this didn't stop him from winning Masters and 500's against a lot of the New Guns and finding a way to create a winning head to head vs. most of these guys (bar Nadal).

2011 rolls around and Federer is being written off as Grandpa. He was quoted as Grandpa in 2011 French Open and was thought to be done with his winning ways. Not only that but Djokovic was a F8ckng monster and was on a tear for the whole season. Was it Nadal who defeated him or Murray??? Nope, it was so called Grandpa Federer who put on a @masterclass at the French Open and showed that he still has the game to beat the top guys. Yes he lost to Djokovic in poor fashion at other Grand Slams, but once again, there are 50 plus tournaments outside of the grand slams that Federer was able to find success in and beat some of the very best. A great example is the WTF.

By the beginning of 2012 it looked like Federer should just be written off at Grand Slams and really had no chance to get back to number 1. The odds were not in his favor considering the competition. Once again, Federer was able to revive himself and found a way to win Wimbledon and get back to Number 1. He even bageled Djokovic at Cincinnati and showed a superb year of serving and playing pretty good all court tennis.

2013 was Backerer and I'm 100% sure that all of MTF, myself included, wanted to sign over the paper work to put him in the "old folks" tennis home. May as well roll out the wheel chair and call it a career. Yes he had an ok indoor season, but everyone knew this was it.

 
Roger Federer is ranked _________ but any problem cannot be found? Argument.


Instead of Federer throwing in the towel, he took time off and trained even harder and got himself back in fighting shape. Understanding about the back, he brought in Stefan Edberg, who brought Federer back to the S+V style. Not only that but he changed his racquet, which is not an easy decision to make! This was all in hopes of being competitive again and winning titles and he did just that! (minus the grandslams). He dominated the rest of the tour and had some great wins over Djokovic in some masters and 500s. If Federer stuck with his old play style then one has to think he may have had a season similar to 2013.

2016 was meh, maybe a lot of it doing with his knee. Edberg was out and Federer had a massive layoff.

Once again looking for that new edge, Lubjicic was brought onto the team. Which was a complete curveball, as I'm sure most of MTF was thinking: "What the heck is Roger doing bringing on one of his Pigeons??" Low and behold, it was to re invent his ground game and help him be aggressive from the baseline. His backhand suddenly became a weapon and for the first time ever, Federer was beating Nadal! 8 years later and Federer does a switch on the AO 2009 and just GOATS in the fifth set vs. Nadal! After 4.5 years of slam drought, he was able to win three of them and being 36 years old! Even in the start of 2018 he was 17-0!

Fast forward to yesterday and we saw a tired, sweaty and old looking grandpa, who had his chances, but just looked checked out of the U.S. Open. Which is bizarre, considering how much loves he New York and how he even came to New York a week ahead of time to prepare for the conditions! Something has been off about him and maybe it is just his age, players being better than him or him slowly losing passion for tennis; but things seem a little more uncertain for Federer than they have in recent years.

The logical and easy answer is: "He is done, he is going to retire, let's enjoy every gift and win that this man can bring and cheer him on until the end of next year..." While yes, he has been un clutch for quite some time, this hasn't stopped him from trying everything in his power to re invent himself and come back time and time again.

End statement.

The question is now posed MTF: Do you still believe Federer can reinvent himself and find ways to win or is this it?

Thank you and discuss below and vote in the poll.

Maybe Darth Federer knows something we don't, but I am going to be an optimist and say that Federer can still win tournaments and a find a way bolster his title count, even if that means not winning slams. Maybe we would see the resurgence of serve and volley
 

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Too lazy to read the whole thing...but Federer no longer does as well as he should in the US Open and skips the whole clay season...he's 37 and he has achieved pretty much everything there is...time to call it a career...
 

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I don't think he need to re-invent or anything...at this age, I don't think there is anything he can change technically which might have big effect on his game...he just needs to re-assess some of the lapses he has been having this year...and also probably needs to re-assess some of his strategies. One thing he could probably look to correct from technical point of view is his forehand volleying technique..he seem to be missing a lot of them in recent months.

In 2018, there have been matches where he seem to just get rattled when he has a bad game and gets broken..and then totally lose his way for sometime during the match...thought it was a one off after that 4th set in AO final against Cilic but then it happened many times later this year.

In the first service game in 2nd set yesterday, he missed first serve for some 15 straight points...majority of those missed first serves were the wide serves. Once after he missed some 4-5 first serves in row in that game, I thought he might probably try a different serve (probly the 'T' serve) but nah...he keeps going for that wide serve again and again and again. He is just being way too stubborn at times and then that drop shot approaches (not just yesterday but his drop shot approaches in general haven't been productive).

So..sit with the coaching team and just work upon his tactics and mental lapses he has been having
 

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I'm not ready to count him out as he has proven me wrong too many times, but at the age of 37, I think his days of competing on slower surfaces (slow HC's included), are done.

I believe he still can challenge on faster surfaces, i.e. grass, indoor and faster HC's, for the next 1-2 years, however, with the Novak back on his "gluten free" diet, it will be difficult for him to win those.

Only time will tell.

IMO Rafa has already surpassed him for GOAT. Better H2H, and will probably end up with more GS than him. He has at least 3 more FO's left in him so its just the matter of winner 2-3 other GS in the next 3 years. Combine that with the fact that no player has come close to his dominance on one surface, and he gets my nod as goat.

I won't begrudge anyone for picking Roger though but Faker shoudn't be in the conversation.
 

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He needs to hire Edberg and go back to using the Fedberg tactics. Federer had wasted time with either the wrong coaches or got the right coaches at the wrong time. He wasted 3 years with Annacone who brought nothing to his game imo. Then he hired Edberg in 2014, who was the right coach but at the wrong time. He should have hired Ljubicic in 2014, because he still had the game to play from the baseline, without getting tired. Now, he is at a stage, where he can't play many rallies as he seems to get tired quite quickly, so Ljubicic's tactic of playing from the baseline isn't that effective anymore. If Federer had employed Fedberg tactics, he would have won the match against Millman in straight sets. He needs to go back to the tactics, he was using from 2014-15. Sure those tactics didn't work against peak Djokovic in majors, but they worked against everyone else. If I were Federer, I would beg Edberg to come back. He needs to bring back Fedberg asap.
 

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I think this is an overreaction. The courts were so slow and the balls heavy that was bad enough. 75%-80% humidity was the killer with mid 80 temps in an arena that doesn't really get wind hence poor ventilation.

I saw fed play in R1 and R3 and he was moving and hitting the ball significantly better.

Let us see his play now through wimbledon but i am positive he has some runs left in him. fed serving was unusual. His movement was off. Milmman was solid but remember fed should have been up 2 sets to 0 even though he was playing so poorly.

Let us keep that in consideration. Fed wasn't just straight setted where he had no shot.

Also feel he might need another 3-4 month break to refresh himself a bit who knows. He has so much mileage on his body. He did improve a lot from cincy though.
 

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He needs to hire Edberg and go back to using the Fedberg tactics. Federer had wasted time with either the wrong coaches or got the right coaches at the wrong time. He wasted 3 years with Annacone who brought nothing to his game imo. Then he hired Edberg in 2014, who was the right coach but at the wrong time. He should have hired Ljubicic in 2014, because he still had the game to play from the baseline, without getting tired. Now, he is at a stage, where he can't play many rallies as he seems to get tired quite quickly, so Ljubicic's tactic of playing from the baseline isn't that effective anymore. If Federer had employed Fedberg tactics, he would have won the match against Millman in straight sets. He needs to go back to the tactics, he was using from 2014-15. Sure those tactics didn't work against peak Djokovic in majors, but they worked against everyone else. If I were Federer, I would beg Edberg to come back. He needs to bring back Fedberg asap.

not sure. I think a edberg and ljubo hybrid coaching who be great. Roger missed so many volleys. He was fatigued and i think it was from the 75-80% humidity. People are all overreacting. Fed played better than cincy but the conditions were so different and required a more grinding style of play. It was like playing in miami again with little to no ventilation.

It was brutal. fed will be have some runs left in him for sure. no doubt.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
He needs to hire Edberg and go back to using the Fedberg tactics. Federer had wasted time with either the wrong coaches or got the right coaches at the wrong time. He wasted 3 years with Annacone who brought nothing to his game imo. Then he hired Edberg in 2014, who was the right coach but at the wrong time. He should have hired Ljubicic in 2014, because he still had the game to play from the baseline, without getting tired. Now, he is at a stage, where he can't play many rallies as he seems to get tired quite quickly, so Ljubicic's tactic of playing from the baseline isn't that effective anymore. If Federer had employed Fedberg tactics, he would have won the match against Millman in straight sets. He needs to go back to the tactics, he was using from 2014-15. Sure those tactics didn't work against peak Djokovic in majors, but they worked against everyone else. If I were Federer, I would beg Edberg to come back. He needs to bring back Fedberg asap.
This is what I think. S+V is going to be the least taxing on his body and at the moment he is the best volleyer on the tour or at least has been, in comparison to everybody else.

Mischa Zverev is the only player to employ this tactic and it is certainly something that none of the #NextGen practice against.

It would make sense for him to go back to FedBerg ways for the short indoor season and see what happens there.
 

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Roger will defend his Aussie crown for the second time in a row. Mark my words. Roger will keep playing until Basel 2020. He will not retire so close to having another shot at the gold in Tokyo. I bet the Uniqlo deal was conditional on this happening.

I mean come on. He lost in the 4th round. If he got knocked out in the 1st or 2nd I would say it’s over. This was because of extraordinary conditions and probably a slight back issue. He will be fine after some good time off.
 

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I may be overreacting, but I feel that Federer needs to change something up for the rest of 2018 and continuing into 2019. The tour can figure out his tactics and watch tapes of him and learn how to play against his first strike tennis. 2017 may have been a surprise for most people, but even a slightly declined version of his 2017 form is not going to cut it; instead we will just see a continued Unforced error count and more double faults.
 

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Are you sure of those humidity numbers? During the day match humidity was around 65%.


positive. I live near there. I'm a fit guy. I can run 6 minutes miles ( 3-4 miles at that pace) or longer runs 10 miles at 8-8.5 min per mile.


I am telling you the humidty was bad enough when i ran prior to the match when it was like 65 % ish I couldn't finish my 3 miles i only made it 1.5 and had to stop and had a hard time breathing. The only other time I wasn't able to finish my run was when i had tweaked my knee about a year ago.

Arther ashe has NO WIND or breeze and it sorted ventilated in a way that makes it even more disgusting kinda like how a tennis court is like 100 degrees plus when the weather is high 80s and sunny. I wouldn't be surpirsed if the outside was 75-80% humid that the inside of arther ashe was even worse.
 

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They said on the radio thingie you put in your ear via American Express, that it was 76% humidity last night during Rogie's match!!
It was actually higher. I live less than 4 miles away in Woodside and Dark Sky had it somewhere around 84 ish. I went out to get dinner during the start of the 2nd set and I couldn’t even take my shirt off when I got home. I only walked like 10 blocks!

It has been typical throughout the last month for the humidity to go up during the night although it’s been terrible the whole summer with a couple of nice days few and far between. It was great during qualifying week and the days just before Labor Day weekend.

Right now there isn’t even a breeze in the area. Trees are dead still.
 

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What I believe is that Roger Federer doesn't give a damn* about what anybody on the Men's Tennis Forums website thinks about him.

*I changed the original word to damn because some people might have taken offense to the original word.
 
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