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God loves a trier
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As per Wikipedia, 'A proof is an inferential argument for a statement, showing that the stated assumptions logically guarantee the conclusion'.
Sorry for my English, did not know that proof does not have plural form...
I'm not quibbling with your use of the plural, but with the applicability of proof in our case. What sense of "proof" are you invoking?
 

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I mean that statistics is not the right tool. Understanding the documented history is.
OK, but when you say homogenization, that means some thing being more similar to other things.
Similar here in what surface attribute: speed, bounce, hardness, softness?
If surfaces are indeed homogenized, couldn't we then find the sign of it in the in-match stats?
I am sorry, but homogenization of surfaces cannot be documented by just saying it or by feeling it, there must be some statistical or physical proof in order to state that tennis surfaces are homogenized recently.
 

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I'm not quibbling with your use of the plural, but with the applicability of proof in our case. What sense of "proof" are you invoking?
I am searching for some evidence in the in-match stats changes over the seasons that would be the sign of surface homogenization. For example if grass is indeed slower today, I would expect less Ace % today than 20 years ago.
 

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I'm just making an observation about the extremely shallow nature of tennis knowledge of the vast majority of Djokovic fans on MTF.
And vast majority of them are from Serbia? You said that, not me.
If i wrote: "God, you people are boring. Let me guess, a Nigerian ex-pat?" that would be a highway to perma ban...
 

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I am searching for some evidence in the in-match stats changes over the seasons that would be the sign of surface homogenization. For example if grass is indeed slower today, I would expect less Ace % today than 20 years ago.
That's not how it works with the tour-wide increase in serve stats after poly and the recent invasion of tallbots.
 

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God loves a trier
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OK, but when you say homogenization, that means some thing being more similar to other things.
Similar here in what surface attribute: speed, bounce, hardness, softness?
If surfaces are indeed homogenized, couldn't we than find the sign of it in the in-match stats?
I am sorry, but homogenization of surfaces cannot be documented by just saying it or by feeling it, there must be some statistical or physical proof in order to state that tennis surfaces are homogenized recently.
I understand that you want to use the statistical hammer, but your problem isn't a nail.
 

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God loves a trier
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I am searching for some evidence in the in-match stats changes over the seasons that would be the sign of surface homogenization. For example if grass is indeed slower today, I would expect less Ace % today than 20 years ago.
OK, good, we've moved away from "proof" and are now talking about "evidence". That's a step in the right direction.

But you are looking for (indirect) statistical evidence for a question that is fundamentally not statistical.
 

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That's not how it works with the tour-wide increase in serve stats after poly and the recent invasion of tallbots.
But the increase in Ace Pct started before this invasion, the gradient of increase was even higher in '90 and '00-ies than in 10'-ies. It even dipped down a bit in '20-ies, probably caused by overall COVID situation.
 

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So, the reason why Federer has so much more wins than Djokovic, but still the same amount of Top10 wins is because of homogenization and not because he had easier draws and sucked against Top10 once proper opposition appeared? Riiiiiggghhttt 😐

Let's even check who was beating him when he entered Top100 in rankings (since 2000) if you say that poor Fed had to endure all kinds of specialists... He was losing matches to:
Enqvist - not a surface specialist
Ferrero on hardcourt - definitely not a hardcourt specialist
Clement - not a surface specialist
Rosset on hardcourt - not a hardcourt specialist
Larsson - not a surface specialist
Zabaleta on hardcourt - definitely not a hardcourt specialist
Jiri Novak - not a surface specialist
Bruguera - OK, he was a clay specialist
Andrei Medvedev - not a surface specialist
Pavel - not a surface specialist
Hantschk - WTF???
Corretja - OK, he was a clay specialist
Chang on grass - definitely not a grass specialist
Fromberg - WTF???
Kafelnikov on grass - definitely not a grass specialist
Hewitt - not a surface specialist
Clavet - who???
Sekulov - WTF???
Henman on hardcourt - definitely not a hardcourt specialist
Kucera on carpet - hmmm, was he a carpet specialist?
Hrbaty - not a surface specialist
Vinciguerra - not a surface specialist
......................
The list goes on and on in the same style. Where are those specialists you were talking about? 🤔

Just face it, he made the best out of weak fields and crap opposition to vulture majority of his career and titles. It has nothing to do with homogenization or any other crap.
That's quite an impressive list.
Can count on my left hand the amount of majors for majority of scrubs on it.
 

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Nadal has 173 top 10 wins despite being injured so much so epic.
Rafa was rarely injured, mostly it was a myth of Rafa's injuries over the hard-court season, and we have seen many times those injuries go to deserved vacation come the clay season.

But this time Rafa is truly injured.
No, not the foot, that's just another myth.
This time Rafa is butthurt.
That's why he is playing golf while The King plays W and USO.
 

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Fantastic achievement from Novak, especially when you consider he has played significantly less matches than Federer, which obviously lends itself to the argument that Novak has had the toughest road to becoming the GOAT. And the fact that 25% of these wins came against Federer and Nadal is just incredible.

The GOAT.
 

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Oh so now you finally understand?

Swell! Took a long time, but phew! We got there.

And it's (obviously) not about Djokovic as such, but the statistical illiteracy of his fans.
I don't care about any of that. I just wanted to know what it had to do with Djokovic (since "homogenization king" was how this discussion even got started)

If nothing, then that's the end of our discussion.
 
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