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Now that we have a week without tennis, let's get back to God and a question that puzzles me.

I'll start with the premise that evolution is a fact and that the only people who deny it are those that don't want to know about it. All they know is that it would compromise their religious beliefs, so they just deny it. So this not a thread about the pros and cons of evolution. I am aiming it at people who recognise evolution yet still believe in a God.

Believing in God generally means believing that man (**** Sapiens) has a soul. So what about all the close ancestors of man, that are nevertheless different species? Did they have souls? Or is it just **** Sapiens?

Thank you
Puzzled in Heredia
 

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No. God almighty blessed only men with souls.



NOT.

:haha:

I don't believe in this soul stuff. Men are thinking animals (okay, not them all, Fakervic fans are credited by some studies as thinking less or not thinking at all, it's a clinical dispute), that's it.

Next.
 

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Thanks. You make everything so clear.
 

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I'm atheist, so I'm probably not the kind of posters you were looking for, but if you believe in souls I really don't know why Neaderthals couldn't have had one :shrug:
 

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I'm atheist, so I'm probably not the kind of posters you were looking for, but if you believe in souls I really don't know why Neaderthals couldn't have had one :shrug:
Because then as you go back in evolution, at what stage do animals cease having souls?
 

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I'd be in the same boat as elessar. But I don't see why T-Rex wouldn't have a soul. Jellyfish have no brain, don't now if that's relevant to the soul.
As someone who isn't a believer I'd have to say that the brain is relevant My pet Cockatiel seems to care about others, if there is a soul - I'd see no reason why she wouldn't have one.
 

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Because then as you go back in evolution, at what stage do animals cease having souls?
Ok now I realize why you asked that question;)
I'm having a little trouble finding the right terms in english, sorry, so it's a little oversimplified :
It'd probably dates back to the last common ancestor between men and great apes, after that species diverged, one had a soul and the other didn't. But that's assuming a soul is the result of evolution and not diving intervention :scratch:
 

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But that's assuming a soul is the result of evolution
That is a new twist, but I don't think it possible. A soul is something that survives the physical death. Science does not allow for that, so that is why I think only religious people, who can put faith before science, can believe in a soul.
 

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My pet Cockatiel seems to care about others, if there is a soul - I'd see no reason why she wouldn't have one.
She no doubt has soul, but does she have a soul?
 

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I see no reason why not. She has a heart, brain, lungs etc.. why not a soul then?

Do delusional schizophrenic murderers have souls? If their brain scans show that they believe what they are doing is not wrong because of their delusions?

By the way, while I don't believe in god, I'm more open to the possibility of a spirit (or soul) that may have a lifespan beyond the body - I don't necessarily believe this, and logic tells me to be sceptical, but I'm more open to the idea (it is an area that is probably due genuine research anyway).
 

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I'm agnostic and more into the idea of spirituality than specific religions... but I think he would definitely have had one. I think my dog has a soul. She has a lot of unique characteristics, she is very nurturing and has ways of communicating with us without words. Simple stuff, but she lets us know if she needs something, she shows love, playfulness [aka leaving bite marks. Lovely dog] She's a different species. I see no reason why a similar species to man could not have had one. I don't see why it should be impossible. We only know it's possible for us, because we are our own species.

Similar to 'creatures with a Central Nervous System can feel pain', I think that if another species can form thoughts or have some form of intelligence, it can have a soul. I could well be wrong. I just think along the lines of the body and soul as being two completely different things. Like, when you are dead, you're dead...it's just a corpse, and it's not really you anymore. I don't feel comfortable discriminating against another species as being without souls. Anyway I'm beginning to ramble, which is a good sign to stop :wavey:
 

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That is a new twist, but I don't think it possible. A soul is something that survives the physical death. Science does not allow for that, so that is why I think only religious people, who can put faith before science, can believe in a soul.
Not necessarily, it just depends on your definition of soul. If you take th ereligions definition then yes it's definitely immortal and has to be the result of divine influence. How ever for psychiatrist like Jung the soul and the psyche are the same thing. For the purpose of this discussion I'll just suppose it's divine.

Then, either god decided, at one point, to "provide" some members, of the specy that is the common ancestor of apes and men, with a soul, thus creating two different species. Or that separation was already accomplishe through evolution and god recognized in the ancestors of men (maybe an intellectual development, a potential :shrug:) that decided him to give them a soul.

The one thing that bothers me is that, we're back to a somewhat "christianic vision" of the soul. The latin, the greek, even the hebrew roots of the word soul mean something like life or vital breath, therefore it's not necessarily restricted to humans
 

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I see no reason why not. She has a heart, brain, lungs etc.. why not a soul then?

Do delusional schizophrenic murderers have souls? If their brain scans show that they believe what they are doing is not wrong because of their delusions?

By the way, while I don't believe in god, I'm more open to the possibility of a spirit (or soul) that may have a lifespan beyond the body - I don't necessarily believe this but I'm more open to the idea.
Stop saying what I want to say before I hit reply :p :D
 

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Stop saying what I want to say before I hit reply :p :D
Ok then, since we seem to think about this the same way, answer me this - Does my goldfish have a soul? :cool: I'm pretty sure it doesn't care about me or love anyone or think about much, seeing as we are relating the soul to consciousness which is related to the brain... does the fish have a bit of a soul then?

Damn topic confusing me :D
I've spent hours thinking about this stuff and am still unsure, I'm just dumb :lol:
 

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This may help:from wikipedia - Self-awareness in Animals

Humans are not the only creatures who are self aware. Observations and experiments have shown that some animals are self-aware. Thus far, there is evidence that Bottlenose dolphins, apes, and elephants have the capability to be self aware.
However this still doesn't properly cover emotions, love etc

P.S. Kristen, I'll PM you back in 2 months :p just kidding :lol:
 

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Ok then, since we seem to think about this the same way, answer me this - Does my goldfih have a soul? :cool: I'm pretty sure it doesn't care about me or love anyone or think about much, seeing as we are relating the soul to consciousness which is related to the brain... does the fish have a bit of a soul then?

Damn topic confusing me :D
I've spent hours thinking about this stuff and am still unsure, I'm just dumb :lol:
haha yeah I think about stuff like this, but never know where to look [Buddhism? LOL] and don't read the religious stuff so it's Catch 22:)

Ahh why can't your goldfish be a mammal!? Easier to relate to. Maybe it's extremely ignorant, or doesn't like you as much as you like it. I like to think it would have something. It might just be a simpleton who is only interested in eating, swimming etc. If I could make your goldfish...a dolphin for a moment... I'd find it easier to think it has one.

I don't know if it's the vego or the treehugger in me [or the combination of the lot] but in many ways I see other species and our own, very much on par with each other [e.g. non-speciesism etc]. Just different in the way we interact with the world. That has little to do with the topic, but it felt good to say.

Clearly it is 1.30AM in my city :lol:
 

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haha yeah I think about stuff like this, but never know where to look [Buddhism? LOL] and don't read the religious stuff so it's Catch 22:)

Ahh why can't your goldfish be a mammal!? Easier to relate to. Maybe it's extremely ignorant, or doesn't like you as much as you like it. I like to think it would have something. It might just be a simpleton who is only interested in eating, swimming etc. If I could make your goldfish...a dolphin for a moment... I'd find it easier to think it has one.

I don't know if it's the vego or the treehugger in me [or the combination of the lot] but in many ways I see other species and our own, very much on par with each other [e.g. non-speciesism etc]. Just different in the way we interact with the world. That has little to do with the topic, but it felt good to say.

Clearly it is 1.30AM in my city :lol:
Well at least we know you have a conscience; since you edited your post AND told us why! :lol:
 
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neanderthal was human , monotheist religions say humans have souls , therefore according to monotheist religions neanderthal had a soul . As easy as abc
 

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Apparently I dont believe in God according to your definition of who can/does believe in God so I cant anwser this question, its a shame.
 
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