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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Just exactly who on clay has proven to be a dominant force or force to be reckoned with other than Nadal ? What competition is there ?
Gustavo Kuerten - Had his career ended by hip injuries, the man will never be the same and yes, he is the man.
Juan Carlos Ferrero - Injuries have bothered him and only now is he starting to regain the form which won him Roland Garros in 2003.
Guillermo Coria - Has not been the same since his 2004 choke job to Gaston Gaudio.
Mariano Puerta - Give me a break.
Nalbandian - Has been injured, last I checked he's an all-surface player, kinda M.I.A.
Gaston Gaudio - One word: FLUKE.
Federer - Refuses to devote himself to the Clay Court season, which is year-around, only playing 2-3 tournaments which are on Clay; prefers to defend Wimbledon title.

There is a serious lack of parity going on, there are really no players that can pose any type of threat to Nadal at the present time. Coria is the only force to be reckoned with and his head is still scattered from having his dream crushed by a nobody with hair that would make even the likes of Andy Murray shutter with disgust.

The question is:
Where is the competition ? Where is the Borg, the Vilas ? Where are the Kuerten or Brugera's of the world ? I could make an argument even if Fedex were to win Roland Garros, the competition is so weak that really does it even say much ?

The point is:

Would Nadal reign supreme over Clay if:
Kuerten were healthy.
Juan Carlos had never been sidelined with injuries.
If Marat Safin, a perfectly capable clay court player were healthy.
If Coria had been in form this year.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda, that's all hindsight, but I question the quality of Clay Court success this year, what made me bring up this discussion is a post in the 2006: atp restore thread with regard to there BEING no one to challenge other than Coria.

That's a good point, it's unfortunate that the real King Of Clay is missing. Sadly, this generation has yet to produce a rivalry like Muster vs Brugera on clay (muster wins 12-3, but each match was closely contested) , now there's a match. It's quite easy to pick apart the likes of Sebastian Grojean, Gonzalez. The usual defensive retrievers, where are the big boys on Clay ?
 

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I think when someone dominates, there is always excuses why?? what if?? etc etc.

Nadal would destroy anyone on Clay if he is playing his best tennis (which he will he plays every point as if it was his last.)

Like i said before Federer has the best chance if his game clicks on the occasion against Nadal, but Nadal plays so many balls, Federer would need to have no unforced errors, which is pretty difficult with the amount of shots he has to play against Nadal.

Safin is a decent clay courter, but he is similar to Federer he likes to keep the points short and that won't happen against Nadal, Nadal will make him play to many balls, and eventully beat him comfortably.

Coria in his prime???? Coria maybe will improve a little but Nadal is now to good for Coria. Ferrero will never beat nadal on clay again ( has he ever beat him??) In his prime my money would be on Nadal, Guga, this is a difficult one it would be hard to pick a winner, but i would still fancy Nadal to beat Guga at his best.
 

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Agassi will win RG in 2006 :rocker2:
 

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Nadal should wipe the floor with all on clay really, only all surface dudes Fed and Safin at their best could really challenge him.
 

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Seriously.. I don't even care.. Clay has become a joke surface with flukers taking over it.. It's impossible for sport's superstars to keep their focus on RG when the biggest event of the sport is just around a corner.. As the racket technology turned an already big difference between two surfaces into a huge gap, the RG becomes more and more of a second tier Slam.. Next year? Roger will be shooting for 4th straight Wimbledon which would put him next to Sampras and Borg.. Do you expect him to risk that lifetime opportunity for clay? I don't think he'll really bother..
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Real competition, back when Clay had studs.

Kuerten's 1st Roland Garros:
R128 Dosedel, Slava (CZE ) 73 6-0 7-5 6-1
R64 Bjorkman, Jonas (SWE ) 23 6-4 6-2 4-6 7-5
R32 Muster, Thomas (AUT ) 5 6-7(3) 6-1 6-3 3-6 6-4
R16 Medvedev, Andrei (UKR ) 20 5-7 6-1 6-2 1-6 7-5
Q Kafelnikov, Yevgeny (RUS ) 3 6-2 5-7 2-6 6-0 6-4
S Dewulf, Filip (BEL ) 122 6-1 3-6 6-1 7-6(4)
W Bruguera, Sergi (ESP ) 19 6-3 6-4 6-2
2nd:
R128 Vinciguerra, Andreas (SWE ) 42 6-0 6-0 6-3
R64 Charpentier, Marcelo (ARG ) N/A 7-6(5) 6-2 6-2
R32 Chang, Michael (USA ) 44 6-3 6-7(11) 6-1 6-4
R16 Lapentti, Nicolas (ECU ) 15 6-3 6-4 7-6(4)
Q Kafelnikov, Yevgeny (RUS ) 4 6-3 3-6 4-6 6-4 6-2
S Ferrero, Juan Carlos (ESP ) 11 7-5 4-6 2-6 6-4 6-3
W Norman, Magnus (SWE ) 1 6-2 6-3 2-6 7-6(6)

--- Look at this competition, where are the Kafelnikov's ? Hello ? Any accomplished clay courters out there ?

Muster's resume:
1995 - One hell of a year

Competition:
W Bruguera, Sergi (ESP ) 7 3-6 7-6(5) 6-2 6-3 - Rome
W Chang, Michael (USA ) 6 7-5 6-2 6-4 - Roland Garros
W Ulihrach, Bohdan (CZE ) 68 6-3 3-6 6-1 - Austria
W Costa, Carlos (ESP ) 46 3-6 7-6(5) 6-4 - Croatia
W Gaudenzi, Andrea (ITA ) 25 6-2 6-0
W Schaller, Gilbert (AUT ) 25 6-3 6-4
W Washington, MaliVai (USA ) 54 7-6(6) 2-6 6-3 6-4

Bruguera, Chang, Cosa & Washington - We're talking Top Notch & high quality players & all of these with the exception of the Malivai final came on Clay.

1995--Barcelona, Bucharest, Essen, Estoril, Mexico City, Monte Carlo, Roland Garros, Rome, San Marino, St. Poelten, Stuttgart Outdoor, Umag; 1996--Barcelona, Bogota, Estoril, Mexico City, Monte Carlo, Rome, Stuttgart Outdoor;

Dominance on clay against the best in the world.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Experimentee said:
Another Nadal bashing thread in disguise :rolleyes:
No, let's examine the level of play. It's not like, Nadal dethroned a healthy Kuerten to become King Of Clay, it was there for the taking after Coria crumbled apart; unlike Federer whom charged in at 2001 Wimbledon & took Sampras's streak and pride from him to become ruler on Grass.

No bashing here. That's not in my nature. Just healthy questioning.
 

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ys said:
Seriously.. I don't even care.. Clay has become a joke surface with flukers taking over it.. It's impossible for sport's superstars to keep their focus on RG when the biggest event of the sport is just around a corner.. As the racket technology turned an already big difference between two surfaces into a huge gap, the RG becomes more and more of a second tier Slam.. Next year? Roger will be shooting for 4th straight Wimbledon which would put him next to Sampras and Borg.. Do you expect him to risk that lifetime opportunity for clay? I don't think he'll really bother..
To be put next to Borg, he will need to win several times RG....
 

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Julio1974 said:
To be put next to Borg, he will need to win several times RG....
Several US Opens will do just fine as a replacement, they'll do even better.. As he does beat some superstars in those USO finals, not some obscure claycourters..
 

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ys said:
Several US Opens will do just fine as a replacement, they'll do even better.. As he does beat some superstars in those USO finals, not some obscure claycourters..
If you are calling Nadal "some obscure claycourter" I remind you he is the #2 player of the world... But I agre with you. There is no point in trying to beat him on clay. He'll never do it. He'd better prepare for Wimbledon.
 

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Julio1974 said:
If you are calling Nadal "some obscure claycourter" I remind you he is the #2 player of the world...
No question about it. He had a phenomenal year and is #2 player in the world. He is a slowcourt #1 in the world and it is rather unfortunate for him that slow courts are only 40% of the whole circuit and and only include 6 big events out of total of 14. And also that Federer is miles better on slow surfaces than Nadal is on fast surfaces.. Federer is clear #2-#3 on slow surfaces , while Nadal is not even Top 5 on fast surfaces.

But each of last 4 RG finals featured "some obscure claycourter", that has never come close to repeating it or making any significant impact on other surface. Costa, Verkerk, Gaudio, Puerta.. Those are whom I call "obscure claycourters".. Not Nadal, of course. That's what makes RG a second Tier Slam right now..
 

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myskinaLova said:
No, let's examine the level of play. It's not like, Nadal dethroned a healthy Kuerten to become King Of Clay, it was there for the taking after Coria crumbled apart; unlike Federer whom charged in at 2001 Wimbledon & took Sampras's streak and pride from him to become ruler on Grass.

No bashing here. That's not in my nature. Just healthy questioning.
There is absolutely nothing healthy about your posting. You're so into the bashing that you often even mess your "facts" up :shrug:

Where is the competition ? Where is the Borg, the Vilas ? Where are the Kuerten or Brugera's of the world ? I could make an argument even if Fedex were to win Roland Garros, the competition is so weak that really does it even say much ?
Did it ever occur to anybody that he's the "next" Kuerten in terms of clay? He's already had a better single clay season than Kuerten did :shrug: No, it probably didn't occur to you.

Frankly, I don't think that Kuerten's RG lineups will look that much more impressive than Nadal's did this year... given a few years. People will look back and see that he beat Gasquet and Federer. And that will be enough said :)
 

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Chloe le Bopper said:
Did it ever occur to anybody that he's the "next" Kuerten in terms of clay? He's already had a better single clay season than Kuerten did :shrug: No, it probably didn't occur to you.

Frankly, I don't think that Kuerten's RG lineups will look that much more impressive than Nadal's did this year... given a few years. People will look back and see that he beat Gasquet and Federer. And that will be enough said :)
Kuerten beat at least one former RG champ in all of his 3 RGs.. And Kuerten had a beautiful aggressive game on clay..
 

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Julio1974 said:
There is no point in trying to beat him on clay. He'll never do it. He'd better prepare for Wimbledon.
i don't get how people feel they can say that with such certainty. anything can happen, nobody is unbeatable.


oh and i'm amazed that myskinalova somehow only has 89 posts with all the threads he posts :confused:
 

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Another difference with clay is that it's the same players reaching the latter stages in each tournament (Nadal, Gaudio etc), whilst in other surfaces you get the odd surprise (see Andy's Thailand run).

The next clay star to emerge will be Juan Del Potro.
 

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MyskinaLova are all your threads about how Nadal was lucky. He hasn't beaten anyone good. Do u hate him so much because he beat your "God" Fed at RG.
 
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