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If it's based on stats to the nearest rival Don Bradman is the greatest.
Anyone who understands basic statistics and understands most sports would never disagree with this statement. Since we're on a tennis forum, I'll give the following comparison - for Federer or Nadal or Djokovic to be even considered equal to Don Bradman, they'd need to win something like 24-30 Grand Slams. Just shows how amazing Don Bradman was.
Bradman is no doubt the best batsman and cricketer of all time, but to regard him as twice as good as anyone else is slightly misleading.
One must look at the quality of opposition, and the portability of his records - Bradman only ever played in Australia and England. Never the subcontinent on their home spin friendly dry flat turfs, the West Indies against fierce 4 pronged pace like in the 80s, South Africa etc - ie places where you may get more outs and lower scores, that may actually bring your average down.
Shane Warne would be his equivalent as a bowler.
Of course the Don did not bowl, or rarely bowled, so the durability of being an All Rounder is not there either.
 

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Just based on pure statistics. He was so far ahead based on that. Everything else is subjective. The competition has certainly changed etc. But there isn't another statistic in a serious sport that can come close to Bradman's test average.
 

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In modern cricket, Muttiah Muralitharan's bowling statistics are the only numbers that perhaps can be compared to Bradman. I know many get angry with this, especially Aussies, but the fact is that he was deemed legal. Hurts doesn't it:
"...rated the greatest Test match bowler ever by Wisden Cricketers' Almanack in 2002. He retired from Test cricket in 2010, registering his 800th and final wicket on 22 July 2010 from his final ball in his last Test match. Muralitharan holds the world record for the most wickets in both test and one-day cricket."
 

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In modern cricket, Muttiah Muralitharan's bowling statistics are the only numbers that perhaps can be compared to Bradman. I know many get angry with this, especially Aussies, but the fact is that he was deemed legal. Hurts doesn't it:
"...rated the greatest Test match bowler ever by Wisden Cricketers' Almanack in 2002. He retired from Test cricket in 2010, registering his 800th and final wicket on 22 July 2010 from his final ball in his last Test match. Muralitharan holds the world record for the most wickets in both test and one-day cricket."
Murali's stats are inflated by regularly playing against weak opposition like Bangladesh and etc.
 

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If it's based on stats to the nearest rival Don Bradman is the greatest.
Probably not. How far ahead is he? Phelps has 23 OGs, 2nd best has 9. Is Bradman 2½ times ahead of #2?


Just based on pure statistics. He was so far ahead based on that. Everything else is subjective. The competition has certainly changed etc. But there isn't another statistic in a serious sport that can come close to Bradman's test average.

Which sports are serious, then?

I don't know Bradman's stats, but for pure domination I have to think Alexander Karelin and Jansher Khan rank ahead of him. Karelin finished his career with 887 wins and 2 losses, and the 2nd loss was highly controversial as Karelin was undone by a very recent rule change implemented while he was out with injury (he broke his back ahead of the 2000 OG but still competed and reached the final). Can you find someone else with more than 50 matches/bouts/games/whatever that has a 99,8% career winning percentage that really should have been 99,9%?
 

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Probably not. How far ahead is he? Phelps has 23 OGs, 2nd best has 9. Is Bradman 2½ times ahead of #2?





Which sports are serious, then?

I don't know Bradman's stats, but for pure domination I have to think Alexander Karelin and Jansher Khan rank ahead of him. Karelin finished his career with 887 wins and 2 losses, and the 2nd loss was highly controversial as Karelin was undone by a very recent rule change implemented while he was out with injury (he broke his back ahead of the 2000 OG but still competed and reached the final). Can you find someone else with more than 50 matches/bouts/games/whatever that has a 99,8% career winning percentage that really should have been 99,9%?
You mean Jehangir Khan, not Jansher Khan.
 

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Also, ask Phelps to run 100m against Federer, and I'd guarantee you that Phelps will fall on his feet while Federer already finish far ahead.

So, Sicario's definition of what an athlete is basically random.
The best athletes are the ones who display better athleticism, simple as that.

You can be a great sportsmen, without being a great athlete.

Do you think this guy is a great athlete? Obviously no, but he was one of the best pitchers of all time.

o9mgYBLpPME

Roger Federer is a better athlete than Gael Monfils? Hell no, but he's a zillion times better player in his sport.

Best athletes generally are sprinters, swimmers, middle weight boxers, NFL CB's and WR's.

uF_mYMJPYVY

Jordan and Ali were better athletes than this guy? Federer is? Messi is?
 

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^
"youtube" tags doesn't work anymore, have yo use "ytb" instead.

Not an admin decision to change it, btw.
 

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Cricket should not be discussed at all when it comes to athletes! It is a sport with lot of mental battles, application, technique, toiling, etc., but athleticism is definitely not among first things you would dscuss with Cricket.
 

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Cricket should not be discussed at all when it comes to athletes! It is a sport with lot of mental battles, application, technique, toiling, etc., but athleticism is definitely not among first things you would dscuss with Cricket.
Exactly my point. :yeah:

Also, more gifted athletes usually excel at more than one sport. Drew Brees (NFL QB) used to play tennis and defeated Andy Roddick as a kid.

Deion Sanders (former NFL CB) played football, baseball and ran track during college. Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates, both basketball college players, were drafted by the NFL.
 

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The best athletes are the ones who display better athleticism, simple as that.

You can be a great sportsmen, without being a great athlete.

Do you think this guy is a great athlete? Obviously no, but he was one of the best pitchers of all time.

o9mgYBLpPME

Roger Federer is a better athlete than Gael Monfils? Hell no, but he's a zillion times better player in his sport.

Best athletes generally are sprinters, swimmers, middle weight boxers, NFL CB's and WR's.

uF_mYMJPYVY

Jordan and Ali were better athletes than this guy? Federer is? Messi is?
Again, you offered zilch on the criteria of what constitutes "athlete"

Please do so, and we will have good discussion, otherwise I could claim randomly so and so is greater athlete than so and so.

Give us criteria.
 

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Exactly my point. :yeah:

Also, more gifted athletes usually excel at more than one sport. Drew Brees (NFL QB) used to play tennis and defeated Andy Roddick as a kid.

Deion Sanders (former NFL CB) played football, baseball and ran track during college. Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates, both basketball college players, were drafted by the NFL.
You listed THREE 100 m sprinters as the greatest athlete.
Put them against some of the best decathletes of this decade, and they'll get trounced by them.

As for Phelps, how come he is one of the greatest athletes when he can't run decent 100m sprint to save his life?

It's all so random.
 

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At least with the greatest decathletes they run sprint fast, the run middle distance, they jump vertically and horizontally, and they throw things.
 

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At least with the greatest decathletes they run sprint fast, the run middle distance, they jump vertically and horizontally, and they throw things.
Middle and long distances don't require as much athletiscim as sprint distances, this is quite obvious.

Obviously you didn't watch the Julio Jones video I posted. People do all those things (except throwing) and more in the NFL Combine, it's where they determine who are their best athletes. It doesn't mean those who perform better are going to be the better players.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Scouting_Combine

You have a point with the decathletes though.
 

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You listed THREE 100 m sprinters as the greatest athlete.
Put them against some of the best decathletes of this decade, and they'll get trounced by them.

As for Phelps, how come he is one of the greatest athletes when he can't run decent 100m sprint to save his life?

It's all so random.
Man, like I explained ealier, I just listed 4 people that IMO may be the best athletes, but this is tough to rank, everyone has his own rankings.

My point in the thread is: top 4 athlete is different than 4 sportsmen/sportswomen. The best player in sports involving more than just athletic skills often isn't the best athlete of them all.
 

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Apples and oranges? And that's not even accounting for the impossibility of comparing different eras.

My footballing two cents:

I won't deny it's slightly chauvinistic, but watching Cruyff still impresses me more than all the other footballers I've seen. The guy is basically Federer with a bigger ego. Moved like a ballet dancer, made every team he played in better. And, although you have to be Dutch or Spanish to appreciate it, his one liners are brilliant. :)

By the way, who's to say by the way that it has to be scorer in a team sport. Not a fan, but Beckenbauer is also an all time great.
 
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