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What does MTF think about 125 points that Carreno vultured here?

Bagnis had a couple of game points to go 2-0 up in the final set.
 

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I'm happy for him, the guy hasn't had much success on ATP tour but he showed once again that he's a serious hard worker and took the 15300€ and 125 points that were up for grabs at Calanissetta.
 

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He defeated Cuevas and Bagnis, that`s not vulturing.
 

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Shameful vulturing really. I understand the money and the points and its on clay and you ought to win, but still.

You have to at least TRY to adapt your game to grass. It is a different time now. If you are Spanish, you need to at least try to play on grass.
 

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Bagnis is actually a better claycourter imo. I watched the match and had a bet on Bagnis to win a set, he really should have won the entire match tho.

Half of the reason Busta is so good is he is incredibly tough mentally... consistently overcomes adversity and that is the primary factor as to exactly why he's been able to dominate the challenger scene and barely win a round at main tour level. The challenger guys give-in a lot more easily mentality than the tour guys.

I've looked at his game and I can honestly say he is top 40 at best, even for clay I don't see him further than a French Open quarter-finalist one day. His game is plateauing, he has no backhand and his forehand is too flat for a grinder on clay.

Bagnis has a more equipped game to take himself to the main tour and we saw that at the french open. Bagnis being lefty obviously helps and if he didn't choose to bloody well STROKE his lefty forehand into the right handers backhand wing, he'd fair much better. He needs to be more aggressive on that forehand wing.

Anyways. I hope both are playing 250 claycourt events next year like Leonardo Mayer and are able to make that step-up/transition... who knows tho, personally believe Carreno is extremely over-rated tho.
 

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Shameful vulturing really. I understand the money and the points and its on clay and you ought to win, but still.

You have to at least TRY to adapt your game to grass. It is a different time now. If you are Spanish, you need to at least try to play on grass.
I can't agree with this one bit man, what does he get out of losing in the opening round of grass-court events? It's stupid. It's like me saying to a college player to go play main draw challengers, he's not gonna improve his game, coz he's just gonna get battered. If he was playing futures, then may be he could improve.

It's not always the case that when you play player's better than you, you improve. Especially not on faster/slicker surfaces, where you'll barely be able to get into rallies and stuff.
 

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Just like there is number of ,,other,, tournaments for top 30 - 500s,250s, challengers or Davis cup

There should be some limit to players outside top 50 for example, vulture winning clay challengers and futures and than getting seeds to HC ATP world tour tournaments where has no chance:D
 

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So whether you're a vulture or not depends on your most dangerous opponents and how they do in the first rounds? That's crazy.
I think it's more about your intentions when you sign up.
Well, it`s clear that he will vulture Mohamedia next wekk. But as for Caltanisetta, it`s usually a strong challenger and Carreño it`s still an upper class challenger level player.

GIven the fact he faced two good clay players for me that`s not vulturing. But yes, of course he went ultra defensivewhen he signs here.

But he`s just playing smart, maximizing his career perspectives, chosing to remain in the top 70 and earning a good amount of money on the ATP. The tennis career is short and Careño is not the next ATp stars, that`s for sure.

Look at his last interview, his objetive is o finish the year inthe top 40.
 

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If Victor Estrella is playing on grass, Carreno Busta has no excuse
Estrella is like 5,8 with a good, nice lower of gravity that enables him to deal reasonably okay with the lowness of the bounce on grass. Can you imagine Busta doing that?
 

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If Victor Estrella is playing on grass, Carreno Busta has no excuse
Estrella is 33 years od and this will be his only opportunity to do so. Carreño is young and he will play on grass when he establish himself in a confortable top 50 position

But even there, maybe he just does not want to do that. Remember Muster and Burguera?
 

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Estrella is retiring in 1-2 years time and the bloke knows this, he just wants to enjoy and experience as many journies throughout the atp tour as possible.

Busta is looking to the bigger picture, coz he actually has a future and prospect of becoming more than just a journeyman.
 

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Estrella is like 5,8 with a good, nice lower of gravity that enables him to deal reasonably okay with the lowness of the bounce on grass. Can you imagine Busta doing that?
Again it is about adjusting your game to all surfaces to become an all around player, not staying in your comfort zone.
 

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Estrella is 33 years od and this will be his only opportunity to do so. Carreño is young and he will play on grass when he establish himself in a confortable top 50 position

But even there, maybe he just does not want to do that. Remember Muster and Burguera?
I mean, I just don't like the mentality in general. You cannot be afraid of a surface.

Monaco is the worst of them all.

Estrella is retiring in 1-2 years time and the bloke knows this, he just wants to enjoy and experience as many journies throughout the atp tour as possible.

Busta is looking to the bigger picture, coz he actually has a future and prospect of becoming more than just a journeyman.
If he wants to be more than just a journeyman he has to learn to play on all surfaces.
 

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I can't agree with this one bit man, what does he get out of losing in the opening round of grass-court events? It's stupid. It's like me saying to a college player to go play main draw challengers, he's not gonna improve his game, coz he's just gonna get battered. If he was playing futures, then may be he could improve.

It's not always the case that when you play player's better than you, you improve. Especially not on faster/slicker surfaces, where you'll barely be able to get into rallies and stuff.
Sousa was a garbage player in fast surface until like 1 year ago. Fast surfaces are his strenght now. :wavey:
 

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Again it is about adjusting your game to all surfaces to become an all around player, not staying in your comfort zone.
It's so easy for you to say this, but what if he doesnt' wanna go through the whole ordeal of stepping out of his comfort zone and improving on slicker surfaces? if he doesn't realistically think/or believe he's capable of getting/reaching at a level good enough to compete with players on the main tour on grass in the future, then what is the point? His game dictates he realistically will never be able to be anything half reasonable on grass. Kick serves do very little on grass as compared to claycourts and he would just get crushed on his second as a result.

A tennis players career is 10 years.... 12 years at best, 14 if you have the right physios, conditionists and overall team with you, like the top guys.

Players do not have time to start working on their weaknesses by the time they're 22. They are there to maximise their ability on the surfaces they are good at and make the most of themselves on tour. By getting ranking points he gives himself a better chance at a future down the line, vulturing smaller tournaments is needed for this sort of guy.

He simply does not, NOT, have the game for a faster surface, it is as simple and plain as that. He has a horrid backhand and a big backswing on the forehand, he likes balls that are high, that's his strikezone. Some player's will just never have the game for a certain surface and that's why they will always focus on their prefered.

I disagree with all these morons that say work on your weaknesses? Why? You aren't in their position, you don't know what being on tour means to a player like this.

This theory that you should improve your weakness is BS, the game is so that you should focus on your strengths and MAXIMISE those strengths, improving them even and making the most out of the career you can have with them. Player's are on tour because they specailise in one type of art in tennis, some grinding, some attacking and some counterpunching.... that's putting it in laymans terms, but you get the gist.


Why should a player that has no hope on a surface even bother? Yes, okay, he may and might improve his game EVER SO MARGINALLY on grass but it's not going to be to a significant enough degree that will actually EVER make it worthwhile. You have 10 years to make the most of your career, you don't have time to piss around.

Carreno Busta probably doesn't even have the game to beat some of the British player's on grass out there ranked in the 800s and that is by no means an exageration. Everyone is on tour because they do one thing special and good enough at the elite level. Only a few, the top 50, be good at all 4 surfaces. The rest have their niche and make the most of what they're good at.

Maturing as a tennis player is become familiar and familiar with your strengths and weaknesses, once you have done that then it's up to you to play around your strengths and weaknesses. Accommodate.

Kevin Anderson is a perfect example of someone that understands what he is good at and what he is not. In laymans terms, he NEVER opts to play conservatively.

Players like Carreno Busta are clearly never going to be a factor on the faster surfaces, so they will always prioritise around the clay and slower hardcourts. Ofcourse they'll turn in and up for the wimbledon's but that's merely only ever for the experience and hey if they do well, they do well. Give their best effort, may be get a 1st or 2nd round win... meet a fellow claycourter and get some useful ranking points but that's it.





He's priotising, being realistic and maximising what he has to offer the game.

Why the fuck would he play grass-court tournaments when he's barely ever played on it in his life?

Del Bonis, Vesley.... etc .... player's like this .... they're not playing warm-up grasscourt events before wimbledon and it's because they realise they are not going to make a career off grass, the highlight of their career, is NEVER going to be at wimbledon, possibly you could say Vesley may one day be half decent on grass, but for right now? He, like Del Bonis and Busta.... are making COMPLETELY the right decisions.



You have no time to get good on a completely new surface. He would have to start from almost an AMATEUR level, that's how significantly different grass is for someone that's never played on it and also doesn't have the game for it. He'd be starting out from absolute scratch. Fuck that. Why waste time? You are not going to improve by playing servebots or grass-court specialists on grass at the tour level.... if he wants to improve he should be playing ITF tournaments on grass, not even challengers ones, because he'd just be and get owned, time after time after time. As simple as that. He doesn't have the game Sousa has... he has no weapons, no real big serve.

Why improve your weaknesses to become mediocre on a surface, when you can spend that time focusing on your strengths and improving them so you can later eventually become world class at those?

Roddick was the same, he barely played warm up events for the french open, only reason he did was because we have 3 masters events on the clay. There are no masters events on grass, so these players that loom between 70 and 120 really just don't give a crap, because there's no ranking points anyway.



You're not looking at it from a bigger picture perspective. You're only following down the cheesy line of 'we should all want to improve our flaws' BS. Yes it is BS.

These are the very best players in the world. The top 100 tennis players in the world. Only a select few are there because they are good at everything. Most are only there because they specialise in one area.

This is so difficult to explain but I'm gonna try.

If Carreno wants to make the most of his talent, then he shouldn't even be looking to grass-courts. Why? because he doesn't have any talent for fast court surfaces, proven fact. However this isn't even the point. His talent/ability has allowed him to develop an effective game for clay and also slow hardcourts. He doesn't have the talent/ability to ever develop a game for the faster surfaces, not at tour or challenger level atleast, ever. So really he cannot be working on his weakness, or improving his weakness with fast courts, because he hasn't any set foundation inplace for them. It's more than just a weakness, he's clueless on the surfaces. He literally has to be starting from scratch and trying to become good on faster courts could take up a lot of time he just doesn't have. Hell there is no saying he will EVER be able to get to the level he is at (Or even near to) on clay. So if he can only max out to an american college level on fast courts, what's the point in even wasting the time.

Say Busta worked on his game on fast hard-courts and grass for the next 5 years ahead, where do you realistically think he would get to? From what I've seen and probably also what you've seen, it won't be anywhere NEAR close to the standard he is on clay. He may squeeze it out to a futures level, but even that's pushing it. So why would a guy that currently has the claycourt game to flirt with the 250 and 500 tournaments on the tour not try and improve and become good enough to establish himself on tour as a claycourter? Why wouldn't he? Aim for your next realistic step, based off the foundations you already have set in-place. Move to masters 1000 and grandslam level on clay and so on, FUCK bloody surfaces you have no foundations inplace to BUILD off. Right?

Let me put it to you like this.

You're really good at art, designing things and etc. Would you say to yourself I'm not going to go for a career in art and design because my maths is really bad and I really wanna work on my weakness so I can improve my skills as an overall person? No, you wouldn't, you would say fuck becoming a well-rounded person, I'm gonna use what I have a NATURAL talent for/in and become the best I can at it. Good enough to earn money at art galleries selling your shit for thousands and thousands of pounds/euros/dollars.
 
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