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A bigger percentage of younger voters wanting to stay only shows how easily they can be brainwashed with logical fallacies like the emotional appeal.

I haven't heard any arguments other than ultimately weak stuff like vaguely defined economic risks and wanting to raise a fist against 'racism' and 'nationalism'. They actually believe autonomy is racist. Disgusting slave mentality.
This, with the left-wingers it's always the same talk, if you love your country and want to be independent you are called a racist, bigot and a homophobe. Probably a nazi too.
thats a repeat work, racist racist


ppl need to get over it, if ppl want to control their border and who get inside and out its their right

if u wanna swear and love the british flag and not the EU ur a racist

i rather put up the insane ppl in jerusalem or tel aviv that i can kick out every 4 years instead of clerks in brussels.

and i think theres a big chance i would vote to stay but if ppl dont its their right and theirs nothing racist about it
 

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Anyone who thinks it is possible to control immigration while maintaining EU membership is a fool. Ending free movement is a prerequisite before we can reassert full control of our own borders. We don't even have borders as an EU member state. Anyone with an EU passport can travel here and stay long-term. And no, it is not unjustified to think that large numbers of Muslims posing as refugees can exploit this freedom of movement by travelling into EU countries like Hungary and using them to get to into Western countries. So far, Germany has clearly taken the real brunt, but that won't continue indefinitely. The EU's imposition of refugee quotas on its member states, threatening non-compliant states (e.g. Slovakia, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic) with €250,000 sanctions for each refugee they refuse, is one very obvious and undeniable sign of things to come. Many of the people who voted to leave because of immigration are aware of this stuff.

Anyone who thinks we will reduce immigration by leaving the EU but maintaining a Conservative or Labour government is also a fool. Under their leadership, non-EU immigration has consistently been higer than EU immigration. Leaving the EU is a necessary step but not the endgame, as everyone I know on the "far-right" is more than aware. If I come across an immigration sceptic who has been misled into thinking the EU holds sole responsibility, I will be eager to disabuse him of this impression. The problem started before Britain even joined the EEC and will continue after we leave the EU, unless a political party willing to do something about it emerges. If such a party emerged without Brexit, the EU would go out of its way to block any change, like it did in Austria after the 1999 election. Fortunately, Britain is far better situated than Austria to deal with attempts by continental powers to bully us.

If you think they're all so naive that they believe this fight has been won, you should try speaking to more of them instead of basing your opinion on a few C4 and Guardian video clips.
Anyone with an EU passport can travel to the UK and stay for longer than 3 months only if he is he an employee, or a self-employed person, or he has sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State,... Source: Article 7 of Directive 2004/38/EC

The Muslims posing as refugees still need a citizenship of the EU country to obtain an EU citizenship, and the citizenship of the country is usually quite hard to get, and if they don't have EU citizenship, then the border control won't allow them further, that's one of the advantages of not being in Schengen.

But overall yes, it's true, you can't fully control the borders with free movement of people. My question is: Do you mind people from EU living on social benefits/working in the UK? Because that's the question of this referendum, every other country outside of EEA (EU+Norway, Switzerland and Lichtenstein I believe) has a bilateral treaty with the UK alone, the EU has no power to order it to the UK. Or it doesn't have a treaty, but it depends solely on the UK to control immigration from other countries than the EEA area.
 

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Discussion Starter #364
So who's gonna be the next Labour leader?
No one. >:)

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legislation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
The Independent - People are really, really hoping this theory about David Cameron and Brexit is true
 

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Re: "BREXIT" - decision day

I would like to say that if you think diversity is a problem then you are wrong. There are diverse places all around the world with multiple ethnic groups that don't have problems like in Bradford or whatever. If there are massive tensions between communities then that is a reflection that something is wrong with the culture in that place. Same shit is seen in France too but I really feel it's partly to do with the attitude from people and little to do with an inherent problem with diversity. I think people should be asking why in some places people integrate well and get along, and why in other places people don't.


Scotland is funny :lol: If you wanted to stay in EU, why didn't you declare the independence back then? You rejected it by majority, don't complain now, too late :lol:


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People were scared into voting no. Actually one of the main reasons that people were persuaded from voting for independence was that Scotland would be excluded from the EU. However, since Scotland has to leave the EU now anyway, I think people see independence with less fear now. Also, Scotland keeps voting the opposite way from the rest so it's just hard to ignore now.
 

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Lot of "leave" voters did so just as a sign of protestation against the current regime and are now regretting their vote.

Will the pound ever recover?

What an utter mess.
 

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:(:mad:

If you are american , please keep you gun
The nationalist/globalist conflict is just bubbling to the surface. This will be a wild century. America is their #1 problem, and Trump has thrown a huge wrench in their plans. North American Union is going to be pushed heavily in the next 10 years.
 

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Let's summarize British history from 17th century:
the Brits decided to aid Austria/the Habsburg Emperor in the War of Spanish Succession, Churchill's victories at Blenheim, Oudenaarde and Malplaquet were inevitable for that, however that only made the Holy Roman Empire last 200 years more and led to a strong Germany which caused 2 world wars. 0-1 for a United Europe

Then the British saved continental Europe both times from the German Emperor and Hitler to build out a Germanized Europe. 2-1 for a United Europe

Then they became a member of EU in 1972... brilliant move, however just a mere 44 years later the Brits and Welshmen opt for leaving it.
2-2

That's a draw, and my British brethren, a terrible result overall.
You are part of Europe, we need you!


Together we are strong, divided we are all weak against USA and China.
 

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Also, it's somewhat tragical that idiots like Boris Johnson can prevail in current British politics.
Shows the mental state of the country, doesn't it???
 

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Discussion Starter #375
I'm beginning to think that this is all according to the plan of EU not UK. It's a clear Roman Empire strategy of divine and rule.

1. Let UK implode on itself, Irish joining, Scots leaving, breaking that Kingdom apart into small independent yet highly manageable regions to rule over. Same thing to happen to every other case in Europe - Catalunya, Basque region, Kosovo, ... "We are all Europeans, you don't need your own national countries to be a European"
2. Use the positive momentum to enforce a new stronger United States of Europe: united army, law, rules, taxation, one president, one parliament; that will stun the world.

Most people are blind to see the real strength of EU. EU's tactic is clearly to not reveal it's true power just yet. They all want you to look at Europe as this benevolent conglomerate of kind grandpa-like bureaucrats, but in fact it is far from it. I mean just the sheer attitude of EU over this Brexit gives you an idea what you're dealing with. Juncker basically dismissing Farage like a homeless drunktard who wondered into an opera house, Cameron red with shame, smiling nervously like a 5 year old as he wraps up his failed career, and everyone in UK in panic and shock over what to do next.

They thought they had it, but nobody really gave it any thought as to how this is going to play out. Now nobody wants to deal with the mess and are passing the PM position around like a hot potato. Just to eventually end up in the hands of some poor idiot, who thinks he has what it takes until he meets his masters at the EU for the first time.
 

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It's not surprising what has happened since the vote in the UK. The whole campaign was very poor from both sides, the issues were not discussed or even understood by many of the voters. It's a shame that the most important decision for many people was about immigration. For myself and many others, this was the least important aspect of the whole thing. Many jobs in the UK rely on EU grants or funding, like my sisters. Many others rely on being able to access the eurozone and Schengen areas for trading. Just today, the merger of the London and German stock markets, an agreement made before the vote, has hit some snags including the fact that the main headquarters of it will now not be in London because of Brexit. Whether we liked it or not, we were a part of this group with full membership and voting rights and with vetoes that other member states did not. When the talking is all done and dusted, we will still have to trade with the EU countries without being a part of the group and the incentives that went with membership. UKIP was founded to get the UK out of the EU - it has done it's job and Nigel Farage, as is usual, is bailing out. He is still an MEP and will be getting all the perks of still being so until the discussions on Brexit are done.
 

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