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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Bored of playing games where you have to predict the results of matches involving players you barely care about? Tired of stumbling around Challengers hoping for a lucky break? Want to step out onto the court yourself and compete for Masters, Grand Slams and Davis Cup? Then this is the game for you.

Introducing what might become the most complicated but most fun game on MTF (which currently lacks a name)

-Build your own tennis player, balancing out his weakness in some areas with strengths in others.
-Play a 21-Week Season encompassing the 9 Masters, 4 Slams, DC and WTF
-Plan your strategy before matches to beat brawn with brains, changing your Aim, Power and Effort to counter the tactics of your opponent.
-Surround your player with a team of coaches, trainers and staff to optimise his body and his game.

1. Match Mechanics

Your Player has Eight attributes which can be increased over time, but can also degrade:

Strength-The overall power of your player, this will affect his number of Aces, Winners and Forced Errors
Speed-How quickly your player moves across the court. A higher speed will reduce the number of Winners and Aces your opponent can get past you.
Serve Technique-How skilfully you serve, this may result in more Aces and fewer Double Faults.
Likewise we have both Forehand and Backhand Technique
Reflexes-How quickly your player reacts, this will reduce Aces, Winners, Unforced Errors and Forced Errors against your player.
Endurance-How your player copes over time, a higher endurance will stop his game degrading during the match.
Mentality-How strong your player is mentally, this will reduce the chance of his psychology taking a swing for the worse in each set.

The Tournaments will operate on 8-hour cycles, in which time you can send your strategy to the tournament manager(s). This will consist of:

Serve Speed-How quickly you decide to Serve, whilst this may lead to more Aces, the Double Fault Count will rise.
Aggressiveness-How much Power you apply to your shots, like Serve Speed, this may increase Winners and Forced Errors, but will also lead to your own Unforced Error Count Increasing.
Effort-How much energy you will put into chasing down balls; although your Forced Errors and Winners will go down, this will cause greater Fatigue, which may have consequences later on in the match.
Aim-How much you will target your opponent's weak spots: although this may result in more Forced Errors and Unforced Errors on the part of your opponent, you may suffer if you push yourself beyond your technique-level.

This will then be combined with the following factors, individual to each tournament:

Court Speed-How fast the Court is, faster courts will benefit players who rely on Winners, whilst slower courts will favour Speed-based players.
Environment-How much Fatigue the temperature and humidity gives.


These factors will be multiplied together to create a score for the following:

Aces
Double Faults
Winners
Unforced Errors
Forced Errors

These scores will then be converted into percentages of the points won on each player's serve. If the percentage of receiving points exceeds a certain amount, there will be a break, and obviously whoever has the most breaks (or most points in the event of a tie break) will win the set. After this Players have until the end of the next eight-hour cycle to send their strategy for the next set to the manager(s). If players do not send picks they will be put on default settings, with no pros or cons, although if they fail to send at all for two consecutive matches they will be disqualified from the tournament.

These are what the formulae look like so far:


n=Negative Effect (This can either be a direct negative i.e. Aggressive Serving or the inverse of a skill like Reflexes)
ST=Serve Technique
XT=Technique of shot being played
PS=Player Speed
BS=Ball Speed (StrengthxCourt Speed)
R=Reflexes


Point-----------------Server----------Receiver
Double Fault-----------nST--------------n/a---
Ace-----------------ST x BS-------------nR----

---------------------Winner of Point-Loser of Point
Unforced Error---------n/a--------------nXT-
Winner--------------XT x BS-------------nR x nS
Forced Error------- BS x XT x PS----nXT x nR x nPS

All of these would be multiplied by the respective players' tactical choices
2. Inter-Match Mechanics:

The Following would effect players in between matches:

Fatigue: Fatigue will build up in a match due to the court conditions and exertion during the match. This will decrease to 20% of the original value at the start of the next match.

Injuries: At the end of each match, and each week, the player will have a chance of being injured. This can range from a small injury to one which can take the player out for a whole season.
3. Seasons:

The Tour will be divided into 22-Week seasons, consisting of:

9 Masters-These won't necessarily be the ones currently on the Tour, they will be balanced to even out the distribution between surfaces, and the locations may change to match the players in the game.

4 Grand Slams-Whilst AO, RG and Wimbledon will remain the same, the US Open may be moved due to over-representation of the US.

1 World Tour Final-Operating the same as in the Tour, this will move continent each year, situated in the most successful country of that continent, in the order: EU, ASIA, AUS, AFR, SA, NA

2 Weeks of Davis Cup: This will change depending on participation, but for now will consist of Zonal Competition e.g. South America, North America, Europe, Asia/Australasia. The two weeks would consist of one week of initial rounds, either knockout or round robin depending on numbers, and one week of finals.

This calendar is subject to change depending on participation.


This might become a huge project and I need the following help:

Managers for Tournaments
People Mathematically Gifted to figure out the numbers, particularly with court speeds and fatigue.
Maybe a Programmer who could make a programme to calculate this attributes rather than having to calculate them by hand each time.


Also if you could comment below whether you'd be interested we could then get this started.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

Yep, crazy, crazy...

I'm your maths guy anyway :scared:
Thanks, if anyone else has any questions or advice, feel free to ask.
 

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Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

I'm willing to be Maths guy plus programmer(depending on what you want to program in).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

I'm willing to be Maths guy plus programmer(depending on what you want to program in).
All we would need is a calculator to insert all the inputs according to the formulae in the OP, taking into account the Court and Tactical Factors along with a dice-roller for mentality changes and injury chance. I have no idea how difficult that would be, but if you could do that that'd be great.

After that we need to figure out the appropriate multipliers to ensure that no one skill is vastly overpowered and balance out the pros and cons of each tactical choice.

Also if anyone had any idea of what to call this game that'd be great....
 

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Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

:D

hi Diadochi, thanks for invitation by pm.

no way for you to say sorry to me. actually felt kind of honored to be picked up into the mailing list.

besides the names on this thread are good players, not to mention Pratik, a really great player. Arsenlaex seems now on the process of amassing credits in a cruising mode.

as for myself, i am just starting learning tennis statistics recently, so your game design sounds attractive to me. but i have a limit of time and am afraid, because of time allowance, probably i am unable to join as a player.

rather i would like to be in the stand to watch how your tournaments go.

thanks again for contacting me.

 

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Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

All we would need is a calculator to insert all the inputs according to the formulae in the OP, taking into account the Court and Tactical Factors along with a dice-roller for mentality changes and injury chance. I have no idea how difficult that would be, but if you could do that that'd be great.

After that we need to figure out the appropriate multipliers to ensure that no one skill is vastly overpowered and balance out the pros and cons of each tactical choice.

Also if anyone had any idea of what to call this game that'd be great....
Figuring out the numbers is something that can be done with some trial and error.

The programming part would be quite easy to handle for anyone who knows how to program. I can do that, but I don't know how to make a GUI. I can make one with text input. Though making a GUI for this would be quite simple for anyone who knows how to do so.
 

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Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

addendum

i almost forget something vital.

just now i realized the title of this thread contains a word derivative of "crazy".

besides it is an utmost form. anyways it explains why i have felt attracted. it should be the one which have attracted me.

good for you. i am rooting for you.

but how and why you picked me... a honor to me.
 

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Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

Pratik and I just cant stop competing. Thi time something we're both good at :superlol:

Let him programme, he knows what he's doing. I'll just do formulas.

I'll think of a name. Also it might be cool to make tournament draws bigger by adding real players, and generating random moves based on their strengths.

On the whole, my kind of game. Thanks Diadochi, tough luck in Portoroz
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

addendum

i almost forget something vital.

just now i realized the title of this thread contains a word derivative of "crazy".

besides it is an utmost form. anyways it explains why i have felt attracted. it should be the one which have attracted me.

good for you. i am rooting for you.

but how and why you picked me... a honor to me.
Well you seem pretty enthusiastic about most games so I thought you might have wanted to do this one. Feel free to join though, you don't have to get involved in the maths and the more the merrier, but I get why you might not want to give it a go. Thanks for the feedback though :)
 

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Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

Definitely sounds interesting, count me in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

For the Maths people to think over, here's an idea of how I'd imagine a match between two evenly matched players, both playing without any tactical changes on an average court, would split the points.

Aces------------5%
DFs-------------3%
UE Server-------7%
UE Returner:----7%
Winner Server---19%
Winner Returner:9%
FE Server-------15%
FE Returner-----35%

This results in an average score per game of 40-15 of 40-30.

Any feedback on these figures would be great, I'm no massive tennis (or maths) expert, so I could be far off.
 

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Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

Well you seem pretty enthusiastic about most games so I thought you might have wanted to do this one. Feel free to join though, you don't have to get involved in the maths and the more the merrier, but I get why you might not want to give it a go. Thanks for the feedback though :)

:D


yup, you are right,

only if time should not limit me, i would play.

actually i am also interested in to watch enjoy fellow members' behavior, which i can not do just because of limited time. but when i get move less slower to get more time, then i would like to start playing.
until then your new game offers me a learning opportunities maths related to things tennis. currently i am working on myself to develop match forecast abilities and start feeling the needs to get used to statistics more. so you know me and what i am aiming at, before i know you.

you are observer with hawkeyes, should be a good at prediction. impressive and attractive to me.

already bookmarked it, i am a fan of your new game.
glad to get to know you. thanks for giving me a pm. feel really honored.

have a nice day.


 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

Pratik and I just cant stop competing. Thi time something we're both good at :superlol:

Let him programme, he knows what he's doing. I'll just do formulas.

I'll think of a name. Also it might be cool to make tournament draws bigger by adding real players, and generating random moves based on their strengths.

On the whole, my kind of game. Thanks Diadochi, tough luck in Portoroz
That's a good idea, actually, maybe we can put in actual stats from real life players, wouldn't mind giving Gulbis a smack around the court :haha:
 

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Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

That's a good idea, actually, maybe we can put in actual stats from real life players, wouldn't mind giving Gulbis a smack around the court :haha:
Perhaps if there was a way to play a whole match in one day (mentality, fatigue etc. factor would change a bit) we could travel the tour using the biggest tournament each week, and if we have say 17 players, we can fill 15 spots with the best ranked players playing that tournament irl.

If you like my tour idea, it would be also a good idea to add 'travel fatigue'. This is how far away between countries tournament is held, and means if you're playing a final in US and then next week go to Asia, you are very tired and can't play your best.

^ this attribute is especially useful if the game ever reaches a stage where so many players that there is more than one tournament some weeks. That way game players have to choose a wise schedule, and play in the same area as much as possible.

Also another rule, one players can choose themselves - you could offer preffered surfaces. Give someone 100% worth to choose from 4 surfaces (indoor hard, outdoor hard, clay, grass), with a 50% starting cap. So if I want to balance, I might choose 29% indoor hard, 30% outdoor hard, 20% clay, 21% grass. Or if I want to be the ultimate clay specialist - 50% clay, 23% outdoor hard, 17% indoor hard, 10% grass.

And over time, based on performance trainers and focus on surface, the numbers can increase or decrease. If I still focus on my clay in second example, perhaps I get it up to around 60, but if I focus too much, my other surfaces deplete by 2 or 3.

I could help with formulae for these if they interest you, just tell me. Also, I'll be an assistant manager when game starts, to receive your picks and your opponents, to keep a pure game
 

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Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

As for a name, maybe something to do with 'virtual tennis tour' or something that can involve that you have your very own player to control
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: Quite Possibly the Craziest Game on MTF to date

Perhaps if there was a way to play a whole match in one day (mentality, fatigue etc. factor would change a bit) we could travel the tour using the biggest tournament each week, and if we have say 17 players, we can fill 15 spots with the best ranked players playing that tournament irl.

If you like my tour idea, it would be also a good idea to add 'travel fatigue'. This is how far away between countries tournament is held, and means if you're playing a final in US and then next week go to Asia, you are very tired and can't play your best.

^ this attribute is especially useful if the game ever reaches a stage where so many players that there is more than one tournament some weeks. That way game players have to choose a wise schedule, and play in the same area as much as possible.

Also another rule, one players can choose themselves - you could offer preffered surfaces. Give someone 100% worth to choose from 4 surfaces (indoor hard, outdoor hard, clay, grass), with a 50% starting cap. So if I want to balance, I might choose 29% indoor hard, 30% outdoor hard, 20% clay, 21% grass. Or if I want to be the ultimate clay specialist - 50% clay, 23% outdoor hard, 17% indoor hard, 10% grass.

And over time, based on performance trainers and focus on surface, the numbers can increase or decrease. If I still focus on my clay in second example, perhaps I get it up to around 60, but if I focus too much, my other surfaces deplete by 2 or 3.

I could help with formulae for these if they interest you, just tell me. Also, I'll be an assistant manager when game starts, to receive your picks and your opponents, to keep a pure game
I definitely want to add some sort of factor that fatigue after matches, what I was going to suggest was, at the end of each match, decrease the victor's fatigue to 20% of the original before his next match. Given that at the start we'll only be doing GS, 1000s and WTF there's not really a reason to add travel fatigue as everyone will be doing the same tournaments. If the game becomes more popular and we add 500s and maybe even 250s then it would be a very good mechanic then.

With regard to surfaces, the stats should help on that. If you have high Player Speed and Reflexes you should be better on clay, where power's less important, but if you're based on Strength then you'll do better in the hard court seasons. This is part of the reason the formulae are so important, they need to be delicate enough to show these sorts of attributes.

I actually had a crack at the formulae myself and they're tricky because of the "negative" factor and also because there are so many unknowns. I'll have another go today and might alter them a little.
 
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