Mens Tennis Forums banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So many top 10 and other players have been injured this year. I think this is really the critical moment of ATP tour and its future. Shouldn't players, in particular Federer, Nadal, Sir Murray and Djokovic, take the action to raise their voices to reform ATP tour schedule and ATP point counting system? I guess it would be difficult to reduce the number of tournaments, hence one could argue like, 1) reschedule ATP world tours, ex. avoid 2 week consecutive MS1000 events (currently 3 times throughout the year, IW/Miami, Madrid/Rome and Canada/Cincinnati), 2) prohibit to play after midnight, 3) release the ATP 500 participation obligation, 4) reduce # of ATP point counting tournaments for MS1000. etc. What do you think? Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Re: ATP reformatting

Though I myself start a thread about downgrading Rogers cup , but I think it's never a big deal , fact is due to unfortunate circumstances with gen 89-93 we don't have top players at their physical prime to dominate things , rather our current top players are 30+ , at this age they should not be top player considering next generation at their physical prime , but that did't happens

I think as soon as Big 4 retires and next gen took over we never face any of these problem when top player all injured in early summer HC swing...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,376 Posts
Re: ATP reformatting

I think its fine the way it is. I can't see a viable way to reform the schedule. The top players just happen to be old and less durable.
I doubt the ATP will make any significant changes to the calendar The lower ranked players want as many tournaments as possible because they need all the opportunities to grab points. Since players ranked outside the top 50 lose in the 1R or 2R more often than not, they don't suffer the same wear & tear that the top players do. They enter tournaments week after week because they need the points. Their early-round losses ensure that they get plenty of rest, LOL.

Top players, on the other hand, are usually playing deep into draws in most of the tournaments they enter. With the increased workload, they run a much greater risk of fatigue & injury and therefore have to schedule breaks in their calendars. I think the top players will just decide for themselves what works for them, like how Roger decided to skip the clay season this year. I wouldn't be surprised if Novak, Andy, and Stan decided to skip the IW/Miami double in coming years. The "off season" isn't much of a break. Players can take off just a couple of weeks before they have to return to hardcore fitness training. Then they have to hit the practice courts pretty hard right at the end of December if they want to be ready for the AO in mid-January. By skipping IW & Miami, they would give themselves another two months off between the AO and Monte Carlo, the start of the clay season. They could also choose to stop playing after the US Open, giving them a full four months between the end of the USO and the AO tune-up tournaments, but with so many points up for grabs in the fall, that's a tough option.

Hey, each individual player will have to figure out whatever best works for him. All I know is that there's no way the 30-something crowd can play a full schedule from AO tune-ups through London WTF like they did when they were in their mid-20s.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Re: ATP reformatting

Hi, thanks. I personally think that 2 week consecutive MS1000 events (IW/Miami, Madrid/Rome and Canada/Cincinnati) should be separated at least one week in between or degrade one tournament. The 2018 ATP schedule has already been fixed, but there could be new scheduling (grading up Rome for 10 days tournament?) for 2019 and later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,853 Posts
Why change things?
Just because it does not benifit the superstars anymore, it should not be changed.
I think the current point system is not perfect, but it does the job and it quite easy
to understand. And the Tour does not only consist of the top 10. You need to consider
the other 1.000+ players as well.
I think any player, like Roger did, can skip any tournament if he wants. He will get a
penalty and that's it. If the schedule is to hard for you, just leave out the tournaments
you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
697 Posts
So many top 10 and other players have been injured this year. I think this is really the critical moment of ATP tour and its future. Shouldn't players, in particular Federer, Nadal, Sir Murray and Djokovic, take the action to raise their voices to reform ATP tour schedule and ATP point counting system? I guess it would be difficult to reduce the number of tournaments, hence one could argue like, 1) reschedule ATP world tours, ex. avoid 2 week consecutive MS1000 events (currently 3 times throughout the year, IW/Miami, Madrid/Rome and Canada/Cincinnati), 2) prohibit to play after midnight, 3) release the ATP 500 participation obligation, 4) reduce # of ATP point counting tournaments for MS1000. etc. What do you think? Thanks.
It's Sir Andrew.

All four points you tried to make are moot (second one is simply ludicrous).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Considering that average age of top players these days are 30+ its a wonder this doesn't happen more often.

But some of these are good suggestions like avoiding 2 week consecutive 1000 events or playing after midnight (although on very hot places its better that tournament plays in later hours; like Umag).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
66 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Hi, I am not arguing to reduce # of tournaments as I fully understand that lower ranked players need more tournaments than top10.

However, current schedule seems to be too packed. And playing at 2am at Washington (due to unbelievable schedule to pack ATP+WTA for just one week tournament) few weeks ago did not seem to be the right thing for tennis players. There was a problem playing after midnight in 2015 when Murray was playing at 3 am in Madrid. He complained and I thought it has been corrected since then. However I was very surprised to see it is happening once again at Washington.

The current ATP point system does not allow top players to adjust their schedules due to commitment obligations. Veterans like Roger can benefit the reduction of MS1000 commitment (600 matches, 12 years of service, 31 year old), but it looks the fatigue of those (top class but below 30 year old players) who cannot enjoy this system seems to be the serious problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,666 Posts
So many top 10 and other players have been injured this year. I think this is really the critical moment of ATP tour and its future. Shouldn't players, in particular Federer, Nadal, Sir Murray and Djokovic, take the action to raise their voices to reform ATP tour schedule and ATP point counting system? I guess it would be difficult to reduce the number of tournaments, hence one could argue like, 1) reschedule ATP world tours, ex. avoid 2 week consecutive MS1000 events (currently 3 times throughout the year, IW/Miami, Madrid/Rome and Canada/Cincinnati), 2) prohibit to play after midnight, 3) release the ATP 500 participation obligation, 4) reduce # of ATP point counting tournaments for MS1000. etc. What do you think? Thanks.
Anyone who plays ridiculous events like the Laver Cup has no right to complain about the tour schedule.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,041 Posts
So many top 10 and other players have been injured this year. I think this is really the critical moment of ATP tour and its future. Shouldn't players, in particular Federer, Nadal, Sir Murray and Djokovic, take the action to raise their voices to reform ATP tour schedule and ATP point counting system? I guess it would be difficult to reduce the number of tournaments, hence one could argue like, 1) reschedule ATP world tours, ex. avoid 2 week consecutive MS1000 events (currently 3 times throughout the year, IW/Miami, Madrid/Rome and Canada/Cincinnati), 2) prohibit to play after midnight, 3) release the ATP 500 participation obligation, 4) reduce # of ATP point counting tournaments for MS1000. etc. What do you think? Thanks.
The injuries are not really caused by the schedule or the number of tournaments. Top professional tennis players used to play many more matches.

1. When you have so many 30+ year olds in the top 100 such as the current situation, the probability of injury occurrence increase as well. Remember, despite people keep telling you that age is just a number, no, age is not just a number.

2. Due to slower courts and heavier balls and tolerance for on court time wasting, players are playing longer hours expending more energy than ever, resulting in increasing the probability for injury to occur. I don't have the data if players are actually spending more hours per match than before, but based on my personal observations, that is the general trend since mid 2000s.

So while I agree that ATP must take action to protect health of the top players, allowing them to play fewer tournaments is not a solution and will never work. Remember that to bring in money, you have to bring in familiar faces. There are already exemptions given to those who have earned them, but to give exemptions to play fewer tournaments to every top 24-27 yo players who should be in their prime playing everything and at the top of their game, will destroy the tour.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
I think that they should remove the mandatory Masters requirements and 500 requirement and reduce best of tournament to 14 slots, 4 of them are mandatory with Grand Slams and rest of 10 ATP tournaments should be left to the players' responsibility to gain their ranking points.

No more Masters 1000 and let as many as ATP tournaments being held all over the world for up to 500 ATP points. Grand Slams should be worth 1000 points. The reason is being, a good week would have your ranking shot up sky unrealistic and undeserved due to best of 3 ATP masters tournaments while Grand Slams actually make you earn it with best of 5 and should be worth accordingly due to nature of 128 draw. That way, players will actually play to their own schedule without the pressure of playing a back to back weeks with high chance of injury and no more bye weeks for top players that they enjoyed for years. They should impose a minimum of 2 slots for each surface, clay, grass and hard court, leaving just 4 tournaments surface of their choice, not included Grand Slams. That is how we can measure their strength of the rankings for the overall points.

With that system, the players are required to play all 3 surfaces, including Challengers, Futures to determine their overall strength, forcing the organizers to stage a grass court events throughout the year, just not limited to clay season, and hard court. It is time to adjust their requirement due to injuries to top 10 players and they suffer their ranking because of it, not reflecting the true ATP ranking due to mandatory Masters requirements. Players should decide which tournament is a 500 tier for that certain week, their top event of the calendar and should not be forced to play in that event. Players should vote for which tournament should be a 500 level each year because every year situation changes in respect to unforeseeable circumstances, for example injuries forcing their hand to make some changes to their schedule mid-way of the season. With that system, I believe that young players can climb their ranking while veterans like Ferrer should not be rewarded for two good weeks during Masters to save his bad season from first half.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,586 Posts
I agree that the ATP 500 obligation should be done away with. As long as these tournaments are allowed to pay appearance fees (unlike M1000s) they will continue to attract players. I also think everybody should get one "get out of M1000 free" card per year -- that is, everyone gets to ditch one M1000 per year without penalty. The reduction of commitment rules would then be adjusted accordingly... or maybe those should be examined for reforms as well.

I don't think the "no play after midnight" rule is good -- some hot places only start play at 4 pm, and sometimes making an exception due to rain is a good idea. What we want to get rid of is bad and greedy scheduling, but this rule would affect other situations where legitimate exceptions exist. It's not always about placing new rules on players; tournaments need to start having some "rules" placed on them as well.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
73,573 Posts
Anyone who plays ridiculous events like the Laver Cup has no right to complain about the tour schedule.
That is what gets me about tennis players they complain about having to play tournaments yet anything extra that comes up what do we see they all want to be involved in it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,950 Posts
Number of compulsory masters tournament should be reduced to 7 [Remove 1 clay masters either Madrid or Rome] from 8, 2 masters event should be optional, reduce 1 compulsory 500 event as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,627 Posts
Nishikori is made like glass and is injured every year

the likes of Wawrinka, Murray, Djokovic, Federer- are all over 30 years old. Berdych is over 30 too I believe (I think he's top 10?)


long story short: it's not a coincidence that the top 10 is all composed of older players and a number are dealing with injuries. The issue is that they're older now, at an age where injuries extremely commonly start to occur, especially in well match played individuals- the issue has nothing to do with the schedule

Ironically the old guys who are the top are mostly defenders (well Djok/Murr/Nadal) who managed perfectly fine for over a DECADE to play defensive tennis in the long season and manage not to end up with career ending or THAT frequent injuries (well maybe besides Nadal).

long and the short is this is just nonsense to spin based on some 30 year old top guys having injuries when it's perfectly normal for them to start having them. When you're doing a test or scientific experiment you need to have constant variable and then a CHANGE in something to truly make a point- if the tennis schedule and season had CHANGED from last season to this season, then you'd have a strong argument that the length of the season might be the problem. but it's the EXACT same as it has been for years.

I.e. the conclusive evidence is that it has nothing to do with the schedule, but with being 30+ years old and a tennis player. In the entirety of the Open Era we have 30 years old being like the key age to start having physical issues in a career, sometimes before

The real answer for this situation is that there is an abnormally low amount of youngsters in the top 10 (under 30 or 25 years old) and due to this it's filled with older players who are on their last legs

simple as that really. Blame the youngsters
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,460 Posts
players need to take control of their own careers and sit out tourneys to rest/recover.

like the nba where teams rest certain stars for select games
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Originally Posted by Mountaindewslave

Nishikori is made like glass and is injured every year

the likes of Wawrinka, Murray, Djokovic, Federer- are all over 30 years old. Berdych is over 30 too I believe (I think he's top 10?)

long story short: it's not a coincidence that the top 10 is all composed of older players and a number are dealing with injuries. The issue is that they're older now, at an age where injuries extremely commonly start to occur, especially in well match played individuals- the issue has nothing to do with the schedule

Ironically the old guys who are the top are mostly defenders (well Djok/Murr/Nadal) who managed perfectly fine for over a DECADE to play defensive tennis in the long season and manage not to end up with career ending or THAT frequent injuries (well maybe besides Nadal).

long and the short is this is just nonsense to spin based on some 30 year old top guys having injuries when it's perfectly normal for them to start having them. When you're doing a test or scientific experiment you need to have constant variable and then a CHANGE in something to truly make a point- if the tennis schedule and season had CHANGED from last season to this season, then you'd have a strong argument that the length of the season might be the problem. but it's the EXACT same as it has been for years.

I.e. the conclusive evidence is that it has nothing to do with the schedule, but with being 30+ years old and a tennis player. In the entirety of the Open Era we have 30 years old being like the key age to start having physical issues in a career, sometimes before

The real answer for this situation is that there is an abnormally low amount of youngsters in the top 10 (under 30 or 25 years old) and due to this it's filled with older players who are on their last legs

simple as that really. Blame the youngsters
Your explanations are not entirely correct. There are 12 players younger than 30 in the Top 20. But not only Nishikori is/were injuried: also Raonic, Cilic, Carreno Busta, Pouille and Goffin = 42 % plus 50 % of all 30+ players. And even Zverev and Thiem are concerned: Zverev lost twice in his first match after winning a Masters title and Thiem was mentally and physically done after QF Rome (he played Barcelona, Madrid and Rome and afterwars the FO in a row).
 

·
justice for all
Joined
·
13,352 Posts
The injuries are not really caused by the schedule or the number of tournaments. Top professional tennis players used to play many more matches.

1. When you have so many 30+ year olds in the top 100 such as the current situation, the probability of injury occurrence increase as well. Remember, despite people keep telling you that age is just a number, no, age is not just a number.

2. Due to slower courts and heavier balls and tolerance for on court time wasting, players are playing longer hours expending more energy than ever, resulting in increasing the probability for injury to occur. I don't have the data if players are actually spending more hours per match than before, but based on my personal observations, that is the general trend since mid 2000s.

So while I agree that ATP must take action to protect health of the top players, allowing them to play fewer tournaments is not a solution and will never work. Remember that to bring in money, you have to bring in familiar faces. There are already exemptions given to those who have earned them, but to give exemptions to play fewer tournaments to every top 24-27 yo players who should be in their prime playing everything and at the top of their game, will destroy the tour.
Good observations. I think those two factors are the main reasons for the amount of injuries we see nowadays: 1) age of players on the top (with age you are more prone to injuries); 2) slow surfaces which are more taxing on your body.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top