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I just started playing tennis so forgive me the question, but what is the difference in play style when it is played indoors? Why would someone play better or worse because it is indoors?
Tennis is an outdoor sport. Period.

The indoor thingy is ping-pong on steroids invented so northerners could play something all year round and delude themselves into thinking they play Tennis. It's fakery, like fukin a doll.
 

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Just a quick reminder in case anyone forgot 😇



Nadal's losses at the ATP Finals
Roger Federer 4-6 5-7 (2006)
Roger Federer 4-6 1-6 (2007)
Roger Federer 3-6 6-3 1-6 (2010)
Roger Federer 3-6 0-6 (2011)

Novak Djokovic 6-7 3-6 (2009)
Novak Djokovic 3-6 4-6 (2013)
Novak Djokovic 3-6 3-6 (2015)

James Blake 4-6 6-7 (2006)
David Ferrer 6-4 4-6 3-6 (2007)
Robin Söderling 4-6 4-6 (2009)
Nikolai Dawydenko 1-6 6-7 (2009)
Jo-Wilfried Tsonga 6-7 6-4 3-6 (2011)
David Goffin 6-7 7-6 4-6 (2017)
Alexander Zverev 2-6 4-6 (2019)

Number of defeats largely limited by his withdraws from 2005-2008-2012-2014-2016-2018 and his w / o in pool after his initial defeat vs Goffin in 2017. Which potentially has 20 more matches.

Knowing that at the Masters, 3 defeats are possible, as happened to him in 2009 vs Djokovic, Soderling and Davydenko. 6 sets L, O W
 

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That article between indoor/outdoor says everything i had assumed including some interesting insights & another reason that makes Novak undeniably one of the most versatile players in history of the sport.
 

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Nodal's clay skew rules out GOAThood anyway, so a duck egg of ATP titles is just the cherry on top.
What you say is skewed i say it shear dominance of beeing called GOAT material.
Federer is the best grass court player. We can all agree to that right?
But he only has 8. Humm. Were there other great grass court players to prevent Federer from winning more? No.
Injuries? No. Then what? Other great players.
Some will say Rafa didnt have any challengers on clay. Sure i cant accept that.
But Nole won several clay Masters along the way. But when it came to RG. GOD was lossing there.

I dont care who was the GOAT. Who is the GOAT. I only care for Rafa winnings.
Its not about who you think is or isnt.
One more and its a tie. 2 more and so long.

As for WTF. The reasons have been stated. Unlucky a few times. Davis Cup was more important for Rafa. And Nole And Federer just were better there. No shame in that.
 

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Were there other great grass court players to prevent Federer from winning more?
Of course. Any big server is a threat at Wimbledon, without even being a great player.

And Federer has won more matches at RG than any other player except one. Nadal is nowhere close to achieving that at Wimbledon.

I dont care who was the GOAT. Who is the GOAT. I only care for Rafa winnings.
Its not about who you think is or isnt.
One more and its a tie. 2 more and so long.
Well that's your opinion. You believe winning a million clay Slams makes you the GOAT. But everyone who knows tennis knows that clay is not enough.

So it doesn't matter what you think.
 

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Discussion Starter #68 (Edited)
And Federer has won more matches at RG than any other player except one. Nadal is nowhere close to achieving that at Wimbledon.
I think this is where Federer gets most underrated. People seem to totally forget how Federer dominated during his prime on clay, too. He had just bad luck to play in the same area with the best clay courter of all times by far.

Federer only got stopped by Nadal at RG 6 times, 4 times in the final. It needed Nadal, or Federer would have won it at least 4 times more. Not to talk about all the other clay tournaments...

On the other side, Nadal just generally sucks at Wimbledon and can be defeated by any random mug. Its a huge difference. Nadal just sucks hard on fast, low bouncing courts. Federer, on the other hand, is brilliant on every court.

Unfortunately, the same can be said about Djokovic, I'll have to admit.

And before Nadal tards even try to dispute this undeniable truth, I let their idol speak:

The Spaniard ace Nadal firmly believes Federer is one of the gifted clay-courters in tennis. “Roger Federer is an amazing champion, too. He’s a fantastic player, a clay‑court player. A player who was able to play 2006, 2007, 2008, finals, then winning 2009. And then playing the final again in 2011. The semi-finals in 2005,” Nadal once said.
 

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I think this is where Federer gets most underrated. People seem to totally forget how Federer dominated during his prime on clay, too. He had just bad luck to play in the same area with the best clay courter of all times by far.

Federer only got stopped by Nadal at RG 6 times, 4 times in the final. It needed Nadal, or Federer would have won it at least 4 times more. Not to talk about all the other clay tournaments...

On the other side, Nadal just generally sucks at Wimbledon and can be defeated by any random mug. Its a huge difference. Nadal just sucks hard on fast, low bouncing courts. Federer, on the other hand, is brilliant on every court.

Unfortunately, the same can be said about Djokovic, I'll have to admit.

And before Nadal tards even try to dispute this undeniable truth, I let their idol speak:

The Spaniard ace Nadal firmly believes Federer is one of the gifted clay-courters in tennis. “Roger Federer is an amazing champion, too. He’s a fantastic player, a clay‑court player. A player who was able to play 2006, 2007, 2008, finals, then winning 2009. And then playing the final again in 2011. The semi-finals in 2005,” Nadal once said.
Sucking at Wimbledon = two titles; five consecutive finals; beating the Wimbledon GOAT in one F.

Sure he then slumped for quite a few years, but now he seems to have figured it out again. "Can be defeated by any random mug" = 2018, lost (in 5 no less) in the SF against Djokovic, and 2019, again in the SF (in 4) against Fed. Not sure if he can beat either Fed (even still) or Djokovic, but you pretty much can never fully count him out.
 

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Discussion Starter #70
Sucking at Wimbledon = two titles; five consecutive finals; beating the Wimbledon GOAT in one F.

Sure he then slumped for quite a few years, but now he seems to have figured it out again. "Can be defeated by any random mug" = 2018, lost (in 5 no less) in the SF against Djokovic, and 2019, again in the SF (in 4) against Fed. Not sure if he can beat either Fed (even still) or Djokovic, but you pretty much can never fully count him out.
I'll admit Nadal can adapt in the second week, when the grass turns into dirt.

In the first week, yes, he can lose against every random mug, as has been proven countless times.

I always wanted to see Nadal in Halle or Stuttgart, were the grass is actually even faster and more low bouncing. But he never even dared to go there.
 

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And before Nadal tards even try to dispute this undeniable truth, I let their idol speak:

The Spaniard ace Nadal firmly believes Federer is one of the gifted clay-courters in tennis. “Roger Federer is an amazing champion, too. He’s a fantastic player, a clay‑court player. A player who was able to play 2006, 2007, 2008, finals, then winning 2009. And then playing the final again in 2011. The semi-finals in 2005,” Nadal once said.
Certainly, but it remains above all communication and Nadal is not used to denigrating the players he beats ... you have to tear his tongue out for him to say that he is the favorite.

He would say just as much or almost of Medvedev or Anderson, already, not to devalue his victories ...

There are more lessons on his statements after a loss :)
 

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I always wanted to see Nadal in Halle or Stuttgart, were the grass is actually even faster and more low bouncing. But he never even dared to go there.
Nadal was in Stuttgart, for the first edition 2015 on grass, beats Monfils semi and Troïcki in final, but mostly :)
 

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U r absolutely correct but I guess one big reason hardly anyone remembers this tourn.
is cause there was no Fedovic or Murray involved & Troiki in final.
 

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Nevermind, found the answer, despite how minimal they seem:
Differences of Playing Tennis Indoors and Outdoors
I believe wind especially is a major factor. Indoors, a precise/heavy serve is less prone to errors / you can make even better use of your precise/heavy serve. Another thing is if you intend to play close to the baseline and take balls early, again this will be easier with a more predictable ball flight path (when there's no wind).
 

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U r absolutely correct but I guess one big reason hardly anyone remembers this tourn.
is cause there was no Fedovic or Murray involved & Troiki in final.
Well me, I'm sure Nadal himself remembers it :)

In 2015, he was not in a position to be choosy even with an atp 250 ..

He had won "only" Buenos Aires this year, after Wimbledon 10th ATP and Hamburg after, for his last title of the season.
 

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I just started playing tennis so forgive me the question, but what is the difference in play style when it is played indoors? Why would someone play better or worse because it is indoors?
It depends on the condition, but typically the ball is faster indoors and stays lower to the ground. Plus there is no wind or other conditions to change the speed of the ball.

This means if you are a player who relies on longer rallies and or the (high) bounce of the court you have less of an advantage indoors.

Djokovic may seem like an anomaly in this equation, but actually he has superb feel for half volleying and hugging the baseline and guiding the ball to the corners. Federer can just play all court attacking tennis and win by being hyper aggressive.
 
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Sucking at Wimbledon = two titles; five consecutive finals; beating the Wimbledon GOAT in one F.

Sure he then slumped for quite a few years, but now he seems to have figured it out again. "Can be defeated by any random mug" = 2018, lost (in 5 no less) in the SF against Djokovic, and 2019, again in the SF (in 4) against Fed. Not sure if he can beat either Fed (even still) or Djokovic, but you pretty much can never fully count him out.
WB07 vs Novak in SF but only after Novak retired in third set & 2008 vs Fed was last success for him vs Fedovic. He did get a sort of payback on Grass the next year vs Novak at Queens but the Serb’s had his number since then. If the ultimate opportunist couldn’t seize the opportunity in 2018 SF when Novak was still recovering from his elbow/arm surgery, then I believe that ship has sailed vs Novak there but not necessarily vs others since there r so few dominant Grass competitors currently.
 

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ATP Finals just don't suit Nadal. They should rotate the surfaces.

ATP Finals are not a deciding factor in any ATG debates. It's an 8 man competition at the end of a long year. An anomaly. Much derided as an exho.

Davydenko, Tsitsipas, Dimitrov, Corretja, Zverev, Nalbandian have won it. Great players, not a slam between them.
 
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