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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I read a lot about people saying its lack of form but doesnt being out off form mean you struggle to even get winning positions. Doesn't it also mean you struggle to beat the lower ranked players which clearly isnt the case at the most.
His poor results actually point to playing decently before compeletly losing composure or heart or just not showing up eady to fight.
Take a look at these loses im not saying he should have won every one of these matches or it was entirely under his control but this cant be a coincidence, surely not even cilic has choked this much in a single year.



Florian Mayer loses 6-3, 4-6, 2-6 after leading 3-1 in the second set

Roger Federer - 3-6, 4-6, 7-6 (8-6), 3-6 Federer was great but with a 15-30 lead in the fourth set at 0-0 murray waste a chance forehand winner both wide and long especially as federer was clearly rattled at that point. Mini choke but federer was great in that match. He later make 2 or three horrible errors to get broken

Marin Cilic- 3-6, 4-6 throws away numeorus 0-30s basically typical non show up verse decent oponent

Milos Raonic 6-4, 5-7, 3-6 broken two consecutive times after leading 1-2* in last set

Novak Djokovic 5-7, 3-6- takes a *3-2 in the second set after a sublime game to break only to serve two double faults eventually losing the last 4 games

Nadal 6-1, 3-6, 5-7 after being 4-2 up

The french open was just hilarious
Against Golubev,verdasco,Philipp Kohlschreiber, Gael Monfils the common theme was loses focus in what seemed like a comfortable stroll before starting a service game with two or three errors eventually winning a hard fought ugly grindfest. Before being completely flat against nadal.

in queens against Stepanek in what was probably the worst and painful to witness of them all after having lead of 6-2 in the first set tie breaker loses 6-7 (10-12), 2-6

In wimbledon theres also the almost choke to anderson the third set at wimbledon lucky for him he was playing anderson and then the pathetic performance against dimitrov as a defending champion.
Having been relative comfortable holding serve he gets broken almost immidiately after breaking tsonga's serve each time, just as he has been most of his losses and some of the wins.

Im not even going to mention the federer match i just feel sick. This shit is just depressing.:sad:
 

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Re: At what Point do we stop blaming Form and realise Andy Murray has become a serial

I think when you aren't fit/in form it affects your confidence as well. His demise is well overstated. Everyone is allowed a poor year. The Big 3 are Top 10 players of all-time, Murray can win Slams again but we realize he isn't in that level.
 

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I thought we have to blame Mauresmo
 

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Was saying in commentary, there have been a bunch of times where he's done it and we've forgotten about it because he's won.

Vesely in IW, Thiem in Rotterdam(?) - there's another two straight away. Believe he was two breaks up on Vesely and lost the set.

This Federer match is a new low though, two breaks up and can't even get to a tiebreaker... that second break of the second set, Jesus fucking Christ, I think that's the worst game I've ever seen him play. If ever there was a game to highlight that there's a big problem here, it was that one.
 

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His brain is broken. He's got to get Lendl back. That's the only way.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Was saying in commentary, there have been a bunch of times where he's done it and we've forgotten about it because he's won.

Vesely in IW, Thiem in Rotterdam(?) - there's another two straight away. Believe he was two breaks up on Vesely and lost the set.

This Federer match is a new low though, two breaks up and can't even get to a tiebreaker... that second break of the second set, Jesus fucking Christ, I think that's the worst game I've ever seen him play. If ever there was a game to highlight that there's a big problem here, it was that one.
Worst thing about is u can see it coming the moment he goes a break up. Today he even went one better loosing two breaks
 

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Its tough to win sets if you can't serve, even with a double break.
That's basically it. We all know he has no second serve. But if the first serve isn't working against Federer when it has to, then he's basically playing one Federer service game after another.
 

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Just seems entirely not match sharp. A lot of these aren't chokes as much as pure lack of focus when ahead, not managing his mental level well during a match. He's always had a problem with that, many times he's said as much. It's also something that gets worse when you've not had much matches, but it's August now.

I'm sure a lot of that is to do with a disrupted season, not being able to train until the last couple of months, the difficulty of losing Lendl, etc. The problem I wonder about is accumulated mental scars.

Physically he's said he's fine, maybe just lacking a little strength from not being able to do a full season of fitness work, and the game is there ........ at times. It's just entirely mental.
 

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People are too hard on him, Murray in 2014 is the perfect example of how a normal human being is able to come back from a major injury in the absolute top of the sport.
 

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People are too hard on him, Murray in 2014 is the perfect example of how a normal human being is able to come back from a major injury in the absolute top of the sport.
I'm sorry but what? He missed 3 months from the tour :confused: He's not Brian Baker

I mean the injury clearly affected him for a short period of time but he really should've got over it by now

And absolute top of the sport? I think this is the idea... he's not reaching the very top of the sport at the moment, therefore the problem
 

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I'm sorry but what? He missed 3 months from the tour :confused: He's not Brian Baker

I mean the injury clearly affected him for a short period of time but he really should've got over it by now

And absolute top of the sport? I think this is the idea... he's not reaching the very top of the sport at the moment, therefore the problem
I suppose another perspective is that players who aren't cheating don't come back from injury after months and start winning everything in sight.
 

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I'm sorry but what? He missed 3 months from the tour :confused: He's not Brian Baker

I mean the injury clearly affected him for a short period of time but he really should've got over it by now

And absolute top of the sport? I think this is the idea... he's not reaching the very top of the sport at the moment, therefore the problem
Back surgery is major in my books.
 

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I'm sorry but what? He missed 3 months from the tour :confused: He's not Brian Baker
He wasn't able to train properly until May because of the back, and with the calendar that means last month.

Don't get me wrong, I'm saying it's more a mental problem than physical now, but his whole season has been completely upturned as a result. Permanently playing unfit and without proper training, it's easy to see lots of poor losses following. Now I wonder about mental scars from those.

In retrospect, and he's said this himself, he should have skipped Australia. Take Jan/Feb to get fit and then come back in Acapulco.
 

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His brain is broken. He's got to get Lendl back. That's the only way.
There are worse organs that can be broken, one feels. A broken brain can be fixed, a broken heart never heals..

... Murray will be fine, basically
 

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The Wimbledon win for Andy was a life fulfilling achievement and he admittedly let down after that, US Open, Olympics, Wimbledon, what more did he need to do, really? Back surgery was elective; it seemed a good time for it. But it's not trivial coming back from it.

Last winter, I projected that barring physical setbacks, he should come around to form between Wimbledon and the US Open. He seems healthy enough now, but one never knows if the surgery has done something physically to limit Murray's level to top 10-20, where he seems to be stuck. I hope not, but who knows? I prefer to think he has a serious lack of confidence playing the best players. He struggles against his own level (which defines it), and can't seem to level up to the top 10.

Tennis players and race horses are much alike from a confidence/class point of view like most athletes. When they have it (confidence), they can achieve even beyond their normal class level. When they don't have it, they lose many when they should not. The old adage, "form is temporary, class is permanent" is true, but only to a point. If poor form, adversity, and losses continue for too long, many lose heart and are never able to recover their former class. The best trainers know when to drop a horse down in class. and enter races where the horse will win and build up their confidence. A tennis player needs to do the same. If it were me coaching Andy, I would attempt to convince Andy to play a 250 or two, win a title or two without top 10 players in his way, get some confidence, then move up in class again with confidence as his mate. Winning begets winning; losing begets losing.

Respectfully,
masterclass
 

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Murray is pretty consistently getting to QFs in the big tournaments - that puts him top 8 level in my book.
 
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