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Sounds crazy?I'll explain.

I'll give you two consistent second tier examples: Ferrer and Berdych.

Both very good against lower ranked players, both can go deep in tournaments constantly and stay up in the rankings.

Now two second tier but inconsistent players: Wawrinka and Cilic

You know what I mean now, right? Wawrinka specially is the perfect example. While Ferrer and Berdych plays always at 50, let's call it this way, Wawrinka can either play at 10 or 100.
Between Ferrer and Wawrinka, Wawrinka is more likely to exit early at a 250 tournament but is also more likely to win a Grand Slam and beat some first tier player.

I don't think Wawrinka is better than Ferrer or Berdych. But the guy can play much better on his days and much worse on his bad days.

I also think it's unfair to say Berdych or Ferrer have mental blocks against better players. It's just they are worse players than Djokovic/Fed/Nadal and their level is not volatile.

So if I was a second tier player I would prefer to be a very inconsistent player like Wawa. Clowning some tournaments here and there, GOATing on other tournaments, maybe a slam :cool:
 

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Wawrinka and Cilic are not more likely to beat one of the top players than Berdych is, in fact they've done is far less often and their peak level is at best on the same league as Berdych's. 12 wins for Berdych over the big 3 (4 at Slams) vs 8 for Wawrinka and Cilic combined (3 at Slams)...

I do agree with the premise of this thread though, for different reasons. Consistently losing deep in events becomes a habit and creates mental scars, Wawrinka and Cilic approached the late stages of the Slams they won without the mental baggage that someone like Berdych or Tsonga have.
 

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Second tier player has a 4k+ point lead over the #2 guy, and more than twice the amount of points the #3 guy has.

I guess that makes the entire tour third tier.
Weak field...

IF we were back in 2005-2008 he would have to be content with 3rd place again..
 

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Exactly, weak field filled with third tier players like Nadal and Federer :wavey:
Because they declined and are gazzed/reduced stamina... Djokovic isnt playing at 2011 level either.. and with this level he would only be 1 in the world if we moved further back to hewitt or ferrero times.. oh wait courts back then were faster and no plexicushion to be seen ;)

Put current djokovic into 2007/2008 scene and he wouldnt crack higher than 3rd...
 

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Another one of those threads that I don't really think it's worth treating as a serious topic...

But... in general terms, how does an "inconsistent" player get rated as being in the same "teir" as a consistent one? Only by getting higher results at their "inconsistent" peak, than the "consistent" player gets on a more regular basis. Hence why one time slam winners with almost negligible results elsewhere (although Wawrinka has wracked up a fair amount of good tournaments outside of AO 2014) get compared to serial slam semifinalists Berdych and Ferrer. Then obviously if you value higher peaks more than consistency, players considered on the same "teir" that are inconsistent get rated higher. If we compared players that reached similar peaks as Berdych or Ferrer in results, but were "inconsistent", with them, we'd be comparing Ferrer and Berdych with Baghdatis and Melzer.
 

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Because they declined and are gazzed/reduced stamina... Djokovic isnt playing at 2011 level either.. and with this level he would only be 1 in the world if we moved further back to hewitt or ferrero times.. oh wait courts back then were faster and no plexicushion to be seen ;)

Put current djokovic into 2007/2008 scene and he wouldnt crack higher than 3rd...
Nadal is only one year older than Djokovic... If you declined into third tier in a year, how much better were you anyway?
 

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Nadal is only one year older than Djokovic... If you declined into third tier in a year, how much better were you anyway?
Nadal won much more titles than djokovic.

Lets see they are only 11 months apart. UNtil late 2010 Rafa had 9 slam,18 m1000, singles olympic gold ( 43 atp titles). 11 months younger djokovic only had 1 GS, 1 Masters, , 5 m1000 (18 atp titles)

Rafa got far more mileage at younger age... He also dominated the most physical field in a span of a decade winning in 10 years 9 RG, 8 montecarlo (9 finals), 7 rome (9 finals), 4 madrid (7 finals) and 8 barcelona.

Which explains 80% of djokovic achievements came from 2011 onwards... Rafa achieved a lot dealing with prime/peak federer...
 

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Nadal won much more titles than djokovic.

Lets see they are only 11 months apart. UNtil late 2010 Rafa had 9 slam,18 m1000, singles olympic gold ( 43 atp titles). 11 months younger djokovic only had 1 GS, 1 Masters, , 5 m1000 (18 atp titles)

Rafa got far more mileage at younger age... He also dominated the most physical field in a span of a decade winning in 10 years 9 RG, 8 montecarlo (9 finals), 7 rome (9 finals), 4 madrid (7 finals) and 8 barcelona.

Which explains 80% of djokovic achievements came from 2011 onwards... Rafa achieved a lot dealing with prime/peak federer...
Clay, clay, clay, and more clay :wavey:
 

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Why does it sound crazy? Sounds entirely rational and I don't think many people would disagree (of have disagreed, for that matter).

\thread.
 

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So if I was a second tier player I would prefer to be a very inconsistent player like Wawa. Clowning some tournaments here and there, GOATing on other tournaments, maybe a slam :cool:
That still doesn't make sense. Among inconsistent players, many are closer to the likes of Dolgopolov, Stakhovsky, Rosol and so on, than to Wawrinka. :)
 

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Clay, clay, clay, and more clay :wavey:
and clay is certainly the most physical field..

PLus rafa in late 2010 already achieved the career grandslam.. something that 4/5 years later djokovic still hasnt managed to achieve himself..

He won USO, 2 wimbledon and AO back then.... Add to it the Olympic gold in HC from Beijing 08'

still more slams.. than the 3 GS djokovic has outside Australian open lol..
 

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and clay is certainly the most physical field..

PLus rafa in late 2010 already achieved the career grandslam.. something that 4/5 years later djokovic still hasnt managed to achieve himself..

He won USO, 2 wimbledon and AO back then.... Add to it the Olympic gold in HC from Beijing 08'

still more slams.. than the 3 GS djokovic has outside Australian open lol..
Nadal killed himself out there earlier in his career to achieve what he has achieved.

Djokovic paced himself better. Any comparisons between their careers should be made only after they are done playing.
 

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Wawrinka and Cilic are not more likely to beat one of the top players than Berdych is, in fact they've done is far less often and their peak level is at best on the same league as Berdych's. 12 wins for Berdych over the big 3 (4 at Slams) vs 8 for Wawrinka and Cilic combined (3 at Slams)...

I do agree with the premise of this thread though, for different reasons. Consistently losing deep in events becomes a habit and creates mental scars, Wawrinka and Cilic approached the late stages of the Slams they won without the mental baggage that someone like Berdych or Tsonga have.
I'm not sure if it's mental baggage. Berdych has started to play more % tennis in recent years and is hilariously stupid to do that. It takes away the main advantage he has over the top guys who are able to now control the point in rallies and move 50x better than him across the court. His record in the last year or so vs top players (not just the big 3) is rather appalling. 1-6 vs top 10 this year with the one win being against a way off form Nadal. Im not a statistics master but I'm sure it was much better a few years ago. Whoever told Berdych to play higher % tennis should be flung. It exposes his weaknesses vs the top players

Tsonga's case has been more physical. He's been injured all the time and has been trying to get back into shape. His Toronto run was one of the most impressive in recent years; beating Murray, Djokovic, and Federer. Mental baggage didn't stop him there.
 

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Nadal killed himself out there earlier in his career to achieve what he has achieved.

Djokovic paced himself better. Any comparisons between their careers should be made only after they are done playing.
Yes djokovic was smarter .. he did wait until the competition declined.. so he can be 1# of the world with the same tennis level he would have remained as 3# a few years back.
 

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Sounds crazy?I'll explain.

I'll give you two consistent second tier examples: Ferrer and Berdych.

Both very good against lower ranked players, both can go deep in tournaments constantly and stay up in the rankings.

Now two second tier but inconsistent players: Wawrinka and Cilic

You know what I mean now, right? Wawrinka specially is the perfect example. While Ferrer and Berdych plays always at 50, let's call it this way, Wawrinka can either play at 10 or 100.
Between Ferrer and Wawrinka, Wawrinka is more likely to exit early at a 250 tournament but is also more likely to win a Grand Slam and beat some first tier player.

I don't think Wawrinka is better than Ferrer or Berdych. But the guy can play much better on his days and much worse on his bad days.

I also think it's unfair to say Berdych or Ferrer have mental blocks against better players. It's just they are worse players than Djokovic/Fed/Nadal and their level is not volatile.

So if I was a second tier player I would prefer to be a very inconsistent player like Wawa. Clowning some tournaments here and there, GOATing on other tournaments, maybe a slam :cool:
Basically you rephrased the Jerzy Janowicz's law :shrug:
 

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I get what you mean, but for Wawrinka and Cilic was more about peaking at the right time, if Berdych for example peaked in the USO 2014 instead of Cilic, he would won too :shrug:
 
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