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Discussion Starter #1
In many ways, RG 2015 was the final nail in the coffin for the "Fedal" era. Federer of course has been on a steady decline for a few years now, Wimbledon 2012 nothwithstanding and Nadal seems to be headed the same way. He's been terrible all year now and I must confess I somehow expected him to just show up at RG and start dominating again but sometimes it just doesn't happen. He's 29 which is not that old but he has the mileage of a much older person(in total contrast to say, Stan Wawrinka for instance). Federer was never going to be a threat at RG this year and he's likely not going to make it deep at any of the slams...I'd be astounded if he made even the Wimbledon F again this year...anyway, this brings me to my question...

With Fedal done for all intents and purposes, have Murray and Wawrinka taken over the mantle as members of the big 3(along with Novak obviously)?
 

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No.
 

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What's Murray's presence there based on? Winning a slam 2 years ago?
Having his best ever start to a season and pushing Novak to five on his worst surface? The only three players to win one of the mandatory tournaments this year?

Stan has only really shown up for one match this year, fortunately for him it was his most important one:worship:

Federer looks old and weak and Nadal looks like he won't be a threat this year.

It is fair to call them that at the moment I think.
 

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Having his best ever start to a season and pushing Novak to five on his worst surface? The only three players to win one of the mandatory tournaments this year?

Stan has only really shown up for one match this year, fortunately for him it was his most important one:worship:

Federer looks old and weak and Nadal looks like he won't be a threat this year.

It is fair to call them that at the moment I think.
He has shown up for at least 5 tournaments this year (Chennai, AO, Rotterdam, Rome, RG)...he reached the AO SF again so he shows consistency on the Slams at least.
 

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In many ways, RG 2015 was the final nail in the coffin for the "Fedal" era. Federer of course has been on a steady decline for a few years now, Wimbledon 2012 nothwithstanding and Nadal seems to be headed the same way. He's been terrible all year now and I must confess I somehow expected him to just show up at RG and start dominating again but sometimes it just doesn't happen. He's 29 which is not that old but he has the mileage of a much older person(in total contrast to say, Stan Wawrinka for instance). Federer was never going to be a threat at RG this year and he's likely not going to make it deep at any of the slams...I'd be astounded if he made even the Wimbledon F again this year...anyway, this brings me to my question...

With Fedal done for all intents and purposes, have Murray and Wawrinka taken over the mantle as members of the big 3(along with Novak obviously)?

Uh, no. I can unerstand adding Wawrinka to the big four but even if we just look at slams since Wawrinkas maiden win...

Djokovic (QF, F,W, SF, W,F)
Murray (QF, SF, QF, QF, F, SF)

Wawrinka (W, 1R, QF, QF, SF, W)

Nadal (F, W, 4R, A, QF, QF)
Federer (SF, 4R, F, SF, 3R, QF)

Some others for comparison:
Nishikori(4R, 1R, 4R, F, QF, QF)
Cilic (2R, 3R, QF, W, A, 4R)
Berdych (SF, QF, 3R, QF, SF, 4R)


Djokoic and Murray are givens.
Wawrinka can make sense as a third (Two wins, one semi, two quarters)
But its not like Nadal (One win, one final, two quarters) and Federer's (One final, two semis and a quarter) performances have warranted dropping them out of the big four.

So at most you can argue theres a big 5 at slams. Problem with including Wawrinka, is knowing whether or not we can trust he'll continue to perform at this level. Others have been doing it far longer.
 

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What's Murray's presence there based on? Winning a slam 2 years ago?
Watch it Murray is a GOD.

Well it seems that way. But GODWRINKA is only called upon when there's a threat to FEDS legacy. So he won't be a constant force. I THINK the next two years will be fought over mostly by NOVAK AND ANDY.

With GODWRINKA doing some damage. But he is on borrowed time cant go on forever.
 

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Is Wawrinka the "Big 1"?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Uh, no. I can unerstand adding Wawrinka to the big four but even if we just look at slams since Wawrinkas maiden win...

Djokovic (QF, F,W, SF, W,F)
Murray (QF, SF, QF, QF, F, SF)

Wawrinka (W, 1R, QF, QF, SF, W)

Nadal (F, W, 4R, A, QF, QF)
Federer (SF, 4R, F, SF, 3R, QF)

Some others for comparison:
Nishikori(4R, 1R, 4R, F, QF, QF)
Cilic (2R, 3R, QF, W, A, 4R)
Berdych (SF, QF, 3R, QF, SF, 4R)


Djokoic and Murray are givens.
Wawrinka can make sense as a third (Two wins, one semi, two quarters)
But its not like Nadal (One win, one final, two quarters) and Federer's (One final, two semis and a quarter) performances have warranted dropping them out of the big four.

So at most you can argue theres a big 5 at slams. Problem with including Wawrinka, is knowing whether or not we can trust he'll continue to perform at this level. Others have been doing it far longer.
It's not so much results as level of play of Fedal at the moment. Nadal in early 2014 was in brilliant form and everything seemed to be going well....he'd just won a USO and had beaten Federer in the SF to set up a F with Wawrinka and many expected he'd do the double CS then(not that I care so much for that "record" mind)...then it all went awry. He was terrible in RG, picked his game a bit in the later rounds and somehow won that. After that he's been downright terrible. Federer is losing to all sorts of people at slams...his last 3 slam losses have been to Cilic, Seppi and Wawrinka...even if we cut him some slack for the RG loss, two HC slam losses to Seppi and Cilic back to back show that he just doesn't have it anymore in a BO5. A flop at Wimbledon would mean curtains for Federer as far as #18 goes.

When I say big 3 I mean level at slams also. I just don't see Fedal playing at a high enough level there anymore. A lot has changed since early 2014.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
What's Murray's presence there based on? Winning a slam 2 years ago?
His results this year have been good...third only after Djokovic's and Wawrinka's...he made the AO F, won Madrid, made another Masters F and pushed Djokovic to 5 on his worst surface...his overall level at slams has been good too. Considerably better than (an admittedly declining) Fedal's as of now..
 

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At slams this year? Yes

Anywhere else it seems like Djokovic is there alone, followed by Andy and T-Bend.

Expect things to mix up in the second part of the season, it won't be all about Djokovic and Murray to certain degree, at least not everywhere like in the first part of the season. Stan will be strong as usual at US Open, but can he make something at Masters? Fed will be more dangerous and Berdych should be too, but I don't know with him anymore. And don't underestimate Slamrin.
 

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Live ATP rankings:
1 Novak Djokovic SRB 7585
2 Andy Murray GBR 4480
3 Stan Wawrinka SUI 4230
=====
4 Tomas Berdych CZE 3210

:shrug:
 

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It's not so much results as level of play of Fedal at the moment. Nadal in early 2014 was in brilliant form and everything seemed to be going well....he'd just won a USO and had beaten Federer in the SF to set up a F with Wawrinka and many expected he'd do the double CS then(not that I care so much for that "record" mind)...then it all went awry. He was terrible in RG, picked his game a bit in the later rounds and somehow won that. After that he's been downright terrible. Federer is losing to all sorts of people at slams...his last 3 slam losses have been to Cilic, Seppi and Wawrinka...even if we cut him some slack for the RG loss, two HC slam losses to Seppi and Cilic back to back show that he just doesn't have it anymore in a BO5. A flop at Wimbledon would mean curtains for Federer as far as #18 goes.

When I say big 3 I mean level at slams also. I just don't see Fedal playing at a high enough level there anymore. A lot has changed since early 2014.
Thats fair. Though, I'm not convinced Nadal is done yet. He's had a rough year, but he had a terrific beginning to last year. So I wouldn't leave him off yet. And so long as Federer can continue to position himself deep in slams, I think he can pull off a run. We'll see. If wawrinka can make the semis of the next two slams I'll change my tune.
 

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You're only as relevant as your last big win, and Wawrinka is the most relevant
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thats fair. Though, I'm not convinced Nadal is done yet. He's had a rough year, but he had a terrific beginning to last year. So I wouldn't leave him off yet. And so long as Federer can continue to position himself deep in slams, I think he can pull off a run. We'll see. If wawrinka can make the semis of the next two slams I'll change my tune.
I don't think Wawrinka will ever be the bloke who'd go deep at slams regularly. He'll always be the rocks or diamonds kind of player...one extreme or the other. That said, I expect him to put in a reasonable performance at Wimbledon. He wasn't bad last time but he had to play 3 matches in 3 days and lost in the QF.
 
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